Unleveled world
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:26 am
All Bethesda games abuse this system. Some more, like Daggerfall and Oblivion. Some less, like Morrowind. But all Bethesda open world games rely on this awful practice of leveling the world according to the player level.
I am sure that most people here are aware of it by now. Frankly, I hate that system. In my opinion it is the biggest weakness of The Elder Scrolls from RPG point of view. I always try to mod it away as much as possible.
Now there are reasons why it is done and I understand them. But to me, the negatives just outweigh all possible benefits.
It takes away way too much from the world. It makes you feel sort of central to everything, it all revolves or evolves around you. And it completely kills all immersion for me. As well as it takes away the challenge and feeling of progression.
I believe it could be removed and should be removed ASAP. Obviously, it should be optional, but I would consider it a recommended option. Like playing Oblivion with OOO or Skyrim with SkyRe or Requiem. Original game just doesn't give that satisfying feeling of beating the world, of becoming truly powerful.
I would like to make proposals on how best it can be done in my opinion. I might even try doing it, when it is implemented into the game. I am not a professional programmer though, so it's a bit tricky. I only have experience from modding other TES games.
My suggestions:
Shops' merchandise depends only on shop quality – good stuff always available for high price.
Enemy level depends on the difficulty of the place – dungeons have grades just like shops do.
Loot quality depends on the level of the enemies – good stuff for good fight.
Quest spawned enemies level depends on the quest difficulty – harder quests are hard.
Treasure found in dungeons depends on the dungeon – best stuff is locked away!
Random encounters in the world are tied to player level, but a small chance of higher level enemy.
Why I think it's okay for random encounters to be leveled? To avoid frustration. Plus, there is no reason for low level player to be targeted by powerful enemies. Once you become strong and famous, you gain more enemies who want to fight you.
But there should also be a slim chance to encounter someone above your level. Just to keep things interesting and realistic. There should also be a good chance to encounter someone lower level than you, because these are common.
Stores
The stores are still the same as in original game, but items do not depend on player's level.
"Rusty relics lie wherever they were last tossed. All the wares show the cracks and chips of shoddy workmanship. A mouse scampers over your feet before burrowing into a nearby sack. "
1)Worst quality store: cheapest items at lowest prices, very easy to steal, very easy to haggle, almost no money to offer.
"Sturdy shelves, cobbled together out of scrap lumber hold the shops wares. The items are sound and functional, but little more than that."
2)Poor quality store: cheap items at low prices, easy to steal, easy to haggle, little money to offer.
"The shop is laid out in a practical and straightforward manner. All the items seem to be of adequate construction."
3)Average quality store: average items at average prices, hard to steal, hard to haggle, has good money to offer.
"The shop is better appointed than many. Its wares lie neatly on the shelves. Although not fit for a king, all are skillfully crafted."
4)Good quality store: good items at high prices, even harder to steal, even harder to haggle, has lots of money to offer.
"Incense and soft music soothe your nerves as you cross the threshold. Each item in this shop is carefully mounted and displayed. Not the slightest defect can be detected in any item within."
5)Best quality store: best items at highest prices, almost impossible to steal, almost impossible to haggle, almost limitless money to offer.
Dungeons
Same standards should apply to dungeons. Difficulty and amount of treasure depends on the dungeon, not on the player's level. Similar to shops, message appearing at the entrance of the dungeon will signal the difficulty of the place (here are also some examples of these):
"This place does not look that scary. There is probably nothing to worry about."
1)Easiest dungeon: weakest enemies, worst quality loot.
"This place looks spooky, but not too dangerous. Still, it is better to keep up your guard."
2)Easy dungeon: weak enemies, bad quality loot.
"This place is definitely creepy. Something is not right. Brace yourself."
3)Average dungeon: average enemies, average loot.
"This place is outright scary. One should be extremely cautious here, for there is danger behind every corner."
4)Dangerous dungeon: dangerous enemies, better loot.
"A cold shiver passes through your body. Death lives here. You should probably leave if you are not ready to face it."
5)Deadly dungeon: deadly enemies, best loot.
To make sure player does not abuse the system put the best loot on the enemies and inside locked chests, leave only the worst loot on the ground. That way, even if player gets into high level dungeon, he has little chance of stealing something very good easily.
Another thing is how dungeons are discovered:
1) Easy quests take place in easy dungeons;
2) Harder quests take place in harder dungeons;
3) Maps to higher level dungeons are much rarer;
4) Maps to the dungeons can be bought at the stores;
5) Best maps cost much more.
It is not hard to implement these features, at least it should be relatively easy compared to many other things planned. But if it's done early on, it could provide a network around which future mod will structure themselves. It could even have some cool configuration menu, so everybody can tune how much the world levels to the player. Maybe completely remove it, maybe leave some places leveled and some not. But it's a must have option in my opinion.
I am sure that most people here are aware of it by now. Frankly, I hate that system. In my opinion it is the biggest weakness of The Elder Scrolls from RPG point of view. I always try to mod it away as much as possible.
Now there are reasons why it is done and I understand them. But to me, the negatives just outweigh all possible benefits.
It takes away way too much from the world. It makes you feel sort of central to everything, it all revolves or evolves around you. And it completely kills all immersion for me. As well as it takes away the challenge and feeling of progression.
I believe it could be removed and should be removed ASAP. Obviously, it should be optional, but I would consider it a recommended option. Like playing Oblivion with OOO or Skyrim with SkyRe or Requiem. Original game just doesn't give that satisfying feeling of beating the world, of becoming truly powerful.
I would like to make proposals on how best it can be done in my opinion. I might even try doing it, when it is implemented into the game. I am not a professional programmer though, so it's a bit tricky. I only have experience from modding other TES games.
My suggestions:
Shops' merchandise depends only on shop quality – good stuff always available for high price.
Enemy level depends on the difficulty of the place – dungeons have grades just like shops do.
Loot quality depends on the level of the enemies – good stuff for good fight.
Quest spawned enemies level depends on the quest difficulty – harder quests are hard.
Treasure found in dungeons depends on the dungeon – best stuff is locked away!
Random encounters in the world are tied to player level, but a small chance of higher level enemy.
Why I think it's okay for random encounters to be leveled? To avoid frustration. Plus, there is no reason for low level player to be targeted by powerful enemies. Once you become strong and famous, you gain more enemies who want to fight you.
But there should also be a slim chance to encounter someone above your level. Just to keep things interesting and realistic. There should also be a good chance to encounter someone lower level than you, because these are common.
Stores
The stores are still the same as in original game, but items do not depend on player's level.
"Rusty relics lie wherever they were last tossed. All the wares show the cracks and chips of shoddy workmanship. A mouse scampers over your feet before burrowing into a nearby sack. "
1)Worst quality store: cheapest items at lowest prices, very easy to steal, very easy to haggle, almost no money to offer.
"Sturdy shelves, cobbled together out of scrap lumber hold the shops wares. The items are sound and functional, but little more than that."
2)Poor quality store: cheap items at low prices, easy to steal, easy to haggle, little money to offer.
"The shop is laid out in a practical and straightforward manner. All the items seem to be of adequate construction."
3)Average quality store: average items at average prices, hard to steal, hard to haggle, has good money to offer.
"The shop is better appointed than many. Its wares lie neatly on the shelves. Although not fit for a king, all are skillfully crafted."
4)Good quality store: good items at high prices, even harder to steal, even harder to haggle, has lots of money to offer.
"Incense and soft music soothe your nerves as you cross the threshold. Each item in this shop is carefully mounted and displayed. Not the slightest defect can be detected in any item within."
5)Best quality store: best items at highest prices, almost impossible to steal, almost impossible to haggle, almost limitless money to offer.
Dungeons
Same standards should apply to dungeons. Difficulty and amount of treasure depends on the dungeon, not on the player's level. Similar to shops, message appearing at the entrance of the dungeon will signal the difficulty of the place (here are also some examples of these):
"This place does not look that scary. There is probably nothing to worry about."
1)Easiest dungeon: weakest enemies, worst quality loot.
"This place looks spooky, but not too dangerous. Still, it is better to keep up your guard."
2)Easy dungeon: weak enemies, bad quality loot.
"This place is definitely creepy. Something is not right. Brace yourself."
3)Average dungeon: average enemies, average loot.
"This place is outright scary. One should be extremely cautious here, for there is danger behind every corner."
4)Dangerous dungeon: dangerous enemies, better loot.
"A cold shiver passes through your body. Death lives here. You should probably leave if you are not ready to face it."
5)Deadly dungeon: deadly enemies, best loot.
To make sure player does not abuse the system put the best loot on the enemies and inside locked chests, leave only the worst loot on the ground. That way, even if player gets into high level dungeon, he has little chance of stealing something very good easily.
Another thing is how dungeons are discovered:
1) Easy quests take place in easy dungeons;
2) Harder quests take place in harder dungeons;
3) Maps to higher level dungeons are much rarer;
4) Maps to the dungeons can be bought at the stores;
5) Best maps cost much more.
It is not hard to implement these features, at least it should be relatively easy compared to many other things planned. But if it's done early on, it could provide a network around which future mod will structure themselves. It could even have some cool configuration menu, so everybody can tune how much the world levels to the player. Maybe completely remove it, maybe leave some places leveled and some not. But it's a must have option in my opinion.