Verbose Combat

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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jayhova
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova »

I much prefer solutions that keep with vanilla flavor if possible. Messages like "You made a successful backstab" already exist. 90% of the problem could be resolved with a simple "Miss". Even for experienced players it's not always obvious when you are in melee range. If you get no message you know you are swinging at air.
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Alyndiar
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by Alyndiar »

Well, I guess with real-time combat/actions, not all hits/misses/successes/failured need to be verbose. Only those where something special happened. Still, I'd love to optionnally see more than just "Miss" or other trite messages. But that's only my take on the matter.

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jayhova
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova »

Alyndiar wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:03 am Well, I guess with real-time combat/actions, not all hits/misses/successes/failured need to be verbose. Only those where something special happened. Still, I'd love to optionnally see more than just "Miss" or other trite messages. But that's only my take on the matter.
That's one of the major concepts. Some feedback is better than no feedback. Flavor text is definitely a large part of Daggerfall. The text displayed as you enter an area outside a dungeon is one example. Shop descriptors is another. The weakness of the combat system is that especially early on in the game, you just spam your opponents with blows and wait for them to drop. Tough opponents are just another sprite monster. Most hits don't need to be explained because there is some feedback. However, something that gives a sense of challenge or that you are not just mashing buttons.

Not to belabor a point but this would really need to be adjustable to suit the player's sense of style. Maybe the player wants the occasional bit of flavor text. Maybe the player wants blow by blow fight calling. Or maybe just critical hits.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

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UserOfThisSite
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by UserOfThisSite »

jayhova wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:58 am I much prefer solutions that keep with vanilla flavor if possible. Messages like "You made a successful backstab" already exist. 90% of the problem could be resolved with a simple "Miss". Even for experienced players it's not always obvious when you are in melee range. If you get no message you know you are swinging at air.
There's already feedback in from of sounds, if you miss, you hear metal sound, if you just swing at the air, you don't hear it :D

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jayhova
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova »

UserOfThisSite wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:01 pm
There's already feedback in from of sounds, if you miss, you hear metal sound, if you just swing at the air, you don't hear it :D
The problem with the 'Miss' sound is that it is exactly the same as the sound made when there is no monster in the room. The sound only tell you you are swinging the sword, not that you are engaged in combat. Speaking of com Bat... There are not any clacks as the bat deflects your blows. It's all just woosh. The experience for the veteran player is quite different than for the novice. The novice is simply not used to seeing blows go through the enemy with no results.

Then there is the possibility of giving a "your enemy is too far away" message.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

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pango
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by pango »

They're metallic "parry" sounds, like UserOfThisSite said: Parry1 to Parry9.
But they only play for opponents that can actually parry attacks; Monsters just evade your blows, and there's no sound for that as far as I can tell.
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Alyndiar
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by Alyndiar »

jayhova wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:51 am Not to belabor a point but this would really need to be adjustable to suit the player's sense of style. Maybe the player wants the occasional bit of flavor text. Maybe the player wants blow by blow fight calling. Or maybe just critical hits.
Couldn't have said it better!

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Ralzar
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by Ralzar »

I forgot about this thread until I got link to it now. Mod Propsal Mode: engage! :D


Note: these are several ideas, often counter to eachother. They are to be read as list of ideas to pick from, not one grand plan.


Sound Miss Feedback: The game has parry sounds for enemies that can parry. How about some... special whiffing sounds for dodging? The problem being that the weapons allready make a whiffing sound when being swung at empty air. Maybe a whiff and one of the character grunting or growling sounds? So if you both whiff and grunt, it indicates a miss?

Text Miss Feedback: Have MidText show "Miss!" when you miss a hit. Why MidText? Because it'll be right over the enmy 90% of the time. As opposed to the top text which you have to glance up to read or just don't even notice is there mid-combat.

Combat Feedback Midtext: Have MidText show each attack roll you make (you do not make attack when swinging weapon at air). If you hit, it shows the damage applied to the enemy. If you miss, it says "Miss!"

Combat Log: Introduce a new UI window that is a rolling text of all combat info. This is probably a big mod.





General Skill Feedback: Not really related to Verbose Combat. But more a matter of making all the skills work the same way in DFU. Language Skills, Backstab and Pickpocket have top text pop up on success. Why not the rest? Running down the list:

Archery: Even outside the whole verbose combat thing, this attack could REALLY use better hit/miss feedback.
Climbing: "You lose your grip!" when a climbing check fails.
Critical Strike: "Critical hit!"
Dodging: Not sure if this should have something? "Hit avoided!" ? Might get spammy at high levels.
Stealth: "You have been noticed..." ? Maybe not a good idea until the Sneak Key actualy works.
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jayhova
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova »

Who are these people who do not see text that suddenly appears at the top of the screen? I always see that.

I don't intend that this displace any other mod. If you can mod the game so there is good visual/audible feedback great. However, I am proposing to expand a thing that is already an accepted DF mechanism. Chief among my desires is the ability of the user to control what and how much feedback they receive.

Before writing this I was thinking it would be nice to receive special circumstance messages. Let's say you miss 3 times in a row, on your fourth miss you might get a message "The ease with which he/she/it evades your blows mocks you and your lack of skill" or one-shotting a rat for the third time; "Killing these vermin in a single blow is becoming routine" etc.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

daggerdude
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by daggerdude »

I'd love this! and yes, for other skill checks too!

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