selective monster spawning per dungeon or category of dungeon

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darkner11
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selective monster spawning per dungeon or category of dungeon

Post by darkner11 »

First of all, I LOVE what this mod is striving to achieve! I am definitely a fan of immersion when it comes to RPG experiences. The components of this mod definitely help achieve that. Thank you for such outstanding work!

I, too, have a suggestion for this mod. Would it be possible to implement selective monster spawning per dungeon or category of dungeon? For instance, if there is "crypt" in the name of a given dungeon, it will no longer contain or spawn such creatures as bears. Sure, bears look for dark places such as caves to rest and hibernate, but should hardly be found in the lower levels of a crypt. I find it immersion-breaking and unrealistic. I don't know what this would involve as I have scant experience in coding. However, a mechanic such as this might also pave the way to have certain dungeons completely dominated by a given category of mobs--similar to Oblivion. This might add a new dimension to dungeon-delving, as though you are dispensing of a criminal faction as you delve deeper. Some re-colored sprites might help with this? But that is obviously a subject for a different thread.

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pango
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by pango »

They're already 17 dungeon types in Daggerfall. I don't know if their names match any pattern depending on type though. The main giveaway are the two lines of text you get when you approach them.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
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Narf the Mouse
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by Narf the Mouse »

I think, if there are bears in a crypt, then there wouldn't be zombies or skeletons, as one group would kill the other one - zombies and skeletons being hostile to all life.

On the subject of bears wanting to enter a crypt, it is, from a bears' perspective, I think, simply an already-occupied cave, with the added bonus of already containing food; although some of the food is inconvenient to obtain.
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Ralzar
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by Ralzar »

Narf the Mouse wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:09 pm I think, if there are bears in a crypt, then there wouldn't be zombies or skeletons, as one group would kill the other one - zombies and skeletons being hostile to all life.
Well, in DFU this happens, since DFU has inter enemy combat. But I get what you mean. The dungeons lack a theme.

According to the list pango posted above, there is a theme for the different dungeon types. But looking at the list, the spawn tables are a bit widely spread. Part of the problem is of course that all animals are low level and all deadra are high level. It makes it difficult to have mixed difficulty in a dungeon without mixing from different enemy groups.
It would actually be pretty nice if the enemy groups were spread out more in strength, so you could have a stronger theme for a dungeon. A dungeon with only undead (and the occasional mage/necromancer). Or a dungeon with only orcs. Of course, then you easily get the problem of just having the same orc model represent vastly different power levels, which is something I hated a bit in later Elder Scrolls games.
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Narf the Mouse
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by Narf the Mouse »

Ralzar wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:12 pm Of course, then you easily get the problem of just having the same orc model represent vastly different power levels, which is something I hated a bit in later Elder Scrolls games.
I'm somewhat confused by this bit. From Morrowind on, higher-level enemies have higher-end gear, which conveniently uses different materials and also typically glows or whatever if magical.

I find power levels in later Elder Scrolls games generally easier to discern, as equipped items are generally easily visible, save for things like rings and amulets.
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Ralzar
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by Ralzar »

Highwaymen dressed like they were on their way to an armored rave-party was nother problem, which was even worse :D

But the non-armour foes had a power creep without visual change. I remember my Oblivion mage starting out easily defeating goblins and then 5 level later getting his ass handed to him by the same goblins. Because they leveled up as well, but without the visual indicators, so the actual feeling was of getting weaker as I leveled.
Last edited by Ralzar on Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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darkner11
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by darkner11 »

Ralzar wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:12 pm
Narf the Mouse wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:09 pm I think, if there are bears in a crypt, then there wouldn't be zombies or skeletons, as one group would kill the other one - zombies and skeletons being hostile to all life.
Of course, then you easily get the problem of just having the same orc model represent vastly different power levels, which is something I hated a bit in later Elder Scrolls games.
Right, which is why I suggested recoloring certain segments of a mob, such as the cloth pieces they wear, (hoods, tabards, cloaks, etc.). If you want to represent a mob as being more powerful than a nearly identical one, you could also incorporate a particle effect of some sort, like that which is present on liches. My suggestion is definitely centered around spawn tables more than dungeon aesthetic.

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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by Narf the Mouse »

Ralzar wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:53 am But the non-armour foes had had a power creep without visual change. I remember my Oblivion mage starting out easily defeating goblins and then 5 level later getting his ass handed to him by the same goblins. Because they leveled up as well, but without the visual indicators, so the actual feeling was of getting weaker as I leveled.
You do have a point there. It would be more accurate to say, some enemies have visual indicators of increased power.
darkner11 wrote: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:55 amRight, which is why I suggested recoloring certain segments of a mob, such as the cloth pieces they wear, (hoods, tabards, cloaks, etc.). If you want to represent a mob as being more powerful than a nearly identical one, you could also incorporate a particle effect of some sort, like that which is present on liches. My suggestion is definitely centered around spawn tables more than dungeon aesthetic.
I like this idea. Barring 3D models, recolourable sections on mobs and maybe sparkles is about the best we could probably do to show increased power level.

Hmm.. Use RGB (255, X, 255) magenta for the recolourable sections, and then G can be a "brightness" multiplier?
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Ralzar
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Re: Roleplay & Realism mod pack

Post by Ralzar »

Two other ways to go to upgrade weaker mobs:

Change size. Imagine if giant rats were smaller at the start of the game, but by level 10 you could run into a bear sized rat.
Speaking of, the bears adn tigers are small. Imagine a bigger bear. Orcs the size of giants? A giant skeleton? Spiders and scorpions starting at smaller sizes and growing to their current sizes? This does obviously not work with all mobs, but with a lot of them it could be pretty cool.

Multiply them. Instead of upgrading one skeleton, spawn an extra skeleton or two. Imagine enteirng a room filled with bats or rats. Running into a band of orcs. A school of slaughterfish. A gang of thieves. This would both create more of a themed feeling and more interesting encounters.
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Hazelnut
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Re: selective monster spawning per dungeon or category of dungeon

Post by Hazelnut »

Guys, I split this out from the discussion thread about my Roleplay and Realism mod as it has nothing to do with the contents of the mod itself. This kind of change is out of the scope in my eyes since it's a more fundamental gameplay change to Daggerfall, rather than a tweak or enhancement. So here it has it's own thread and hopefully will get implemented and developed by someone.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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