Mod Idea - Streamlined Leveling

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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Mythraen
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Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:24 pm

Mod Idea - Streamlined Leveling

Post by Mythraen »

I suppose this should be moved to Creator's Corner at some point, but right now it's just an idea (if it should be there, my apologies and please move it). I have to learn how to mod the game before I can start.

Brief Summary:
A leveling mod that attempts to mimic the balance of Daggerfall's vanilla leveling.
1. It ties attribute gains to skill gains, rather than having the player assign points to attributes.
2. It would eliminate time limits and resting in relation to skill gains.
3. It would eliminate RNG in leveling.
4. It would eliminate penalizing your max level based on your starting specializations.
5. It would eliminate the 95% skill cap which exists on all but whichever skill passes the cap first.

I don't necessarily have a problem with Daggerfall's leveling system (except points 2-5 above), but I'd like to try to implement a more streamlined experience.
Attributes would rise on their own based on skill gains.
Skills would all cap at 100 (at present, I understand only one skill can reach 100, with the others capping at 95).
Continuing to practice a skill beyond 100 would still (maybe) gain attribute points, but at a diminished rate.
Eventually, you could max out everything at 100.
Primary, major, minor, and miscellaneous skills would only affect the starting percentages. Their contributions to attribute gains would be the same across the board. (This means gaining a point in a miscellaneous skill will have just as much impact on attribute points as gaining a point in a primary skill.)
Each skill would potentially add to different attributes.
I'll also have to make sure every attribute can hit 100, and... (maybe?) that there's approximately the same number of skills to train for each attribute.
I can see this potentially leading to some more commonly used skills being more powerful than less-commonly used skills. I'm interested in suggestions for balancing this. (The language skills are basically impossible to reliably train, right?)
HP gains would probably also be assigned at the time an attribute point is gained. Effectively, this will make levels meaningless. I understand the game uses levels to govern several things, though, so I'll probably just bump up the level for every 5 attribute points gained.
I'd also want to remove the time limits on gaining skill points, and any relationship to resting.
I'm open to additional suggestions.
Note that the goal is to make a different leveling system. For the most part, it should be roughly equal in balance to the vanilla system.
Exception: At the high end, all skills and attributes can be maxed at 100. The skill cap in vanilla feels arbitrary to me. The vanilla leveling system caps your attribute gain, and actually punishes you for specializing in your skills. As far as I can tell, It would probably be impossible to max every attribute in vanilla through leveling.
Due to these differences, I'd probably want to slow down leveling just a little bit, to help even it out, as well as slightly reduce the hit point gain per level (since the max level would be higher.)

Additional thought: Let player choose how they want to apply skill caps, allowing them to choose a more specialist playstyle, with faster skill gains for skills that fit that playstyle, but lower caps/slower growth on skills that aren't related to it. (This would likely be governed by the skills selected during character creation.)
Last edited by Mythraen on Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:52 am, edited 25 times in total.

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Mythraen
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Re: Mod Idea - Streamlined Leveling

Post by Mythraen »

List of skills and attributes that might be leveled by them.
This is basically just brainstorming. Any attribute I could see being connected to a skill was listed. I separated the language skills at the bottom, since I believe they're very difficult to level.
Spoiler!
Alteration - Intelligence, Willpower
Archery - Agility, Strength, Speed, Luck
Axe - Strength, Agility, Speed, Luck, Endurance
Backstabbing - Agility, Speed, Luck
Blunt Weapon - Strength, Endurance, Agility, Speed, Luck
Climbing - Strength, Agility, Speed, Endurance, Luck
Critical Strike - Agility, Luck, Intelligence
Destruction - Intelligence, Willpower
Dodging - Agility, Speed, Luck, Willpower
Etiquette - Personality, Intelligence
Hand-To-Hand - Strength, Agility, Speed, Endurance, Luck
Illusion - Intelligence, Willpower
Jumping - Strength, Agility, Endurance
Lockpicking - Intelligence, Agility, Speed
Long Blade - Agility, Strength, Speed, Luck
Medical - Intelligence, Endurance, Willpower
Mercantile - Personality, Intelligence, Willpower
Mysticism - Intelligence, Willpower
Pickpocket - Agility, Intelligence, Personality
Restoration - Intelligence, Willpower, Endurance
Short Blade - Agility, Speed, Luck
Stealth - Agility, Speed, Intelligence, Willpower
Streetwise - Personality, Intelligence
Swimming - Endurance, Strength, Speed, Agility
Thaumaturgy - Intelligence, Willpower

Centaurian - Intelligence, Personality
Daedric - Intelligence, Personality
Dragonish - Intelligence, Personality
Giantish - Intelligence, Personality
Harpy - Intelligence, Personality
Impish - Intelligence, Personality
Nymph - Intelligence, Personality
Orcish - Intelligence, Personality
Spriggan - Intelligence, Personality
If you have suggestions, please provide, along with an explanation.
Last edited by Mythraen on Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:26 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Mythraen
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Re: Mod Idea - Streamlined Leveling

Post by Mythraen »

I'm just using this space to work out my thoughts on what should go with what.

Skills for combat (melee)

Melee Weapons - Str, Agi, End, Spd, Luc

Dodging - Spd, End, Wil
Critical Striking - Agi, Luc

Backstabbing - Agi, Luc

Running

Attributes for combat (melee)
Strength - dmg/stamina
Agility - to-hit
Speed - speed
Luck - to-hit

Will - spell resist
Endurance - Health/Stamina

Skills for combat (ranged)
Archery
Dodging
Running

Attributes for combat (ranged)
Agility
Speed
Luck

*lower priority
Will
Endurance

Skills for combat (magic)
Attributes for combat (magic)
Last edited by Mythraen on Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 5 times in total.

daggerdude
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Re: Mod Idea - Streamlined Leveling

Post by daggerdude »

I actually like this a lot. I have a thread about skill&class overhauls talking about the dedundant and silly daggerfall skills and restrictions, particularly combat values.

Skills in daggerfall sorta are illogical, and basically revolves around destruction, long blade, Blunt, Restoration, and whatever else to fill the gap. Tying attributes to skills would make sense if daggerfall's skills made sense. Thats what I liked about Oblivion is that every skill was useful, using major skills gave you attribute modifier points, and how you actually played mattered when it came time to level up.

I would like this but sadly daggerfall skills are so helter skelter that you'd end up only leveling strength and intelligence for the reasons mentioned.

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Mythraen
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Re: Mod Idea - Streamlined Leveling

Post by Mythraen »

I was proposing that each skill add to at least two attributes (chance-based or cycling, not at once).
I'm half-tempted to just take my big list and have every skill apply to the attributes I have listed and see how that goes.
There's certainly an argument to be made against grinding, but grinding something like Etiquette shouldn't be that hard. I don't know how the back-end system works, but I've operated under the assumption that each time you try to talk politely to someone it gets checked. Even if it's only every new person you attempt it with, you can go ask several people one question.
This would level Intelligence and Personality. (Maybe just Personality, since Intelligence's only functional use is for magic.)
If you don't want to talk to people, then you wouldn't want the Personality attribute anyway.
In my list (second post), I have different martial combat skills associated with all of the following: Strength, Agility, Endurance, Speed, and Luck.
Magic skills, all of them, are associated with Intelligence and Willpower.
Since Willpower is defensive, I also put it next to Dodging. (Note, again, this was brainstorming. I have some ideas on maybe narrowing Willpower to just Dodge, Restoration, and whichever school or schools govern magic shields/resist spells.)

Thoughts?

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