Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

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rhymer
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby rhymer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:50 am

I'm definitely against the idea of replacing npcs with paper doll system, sharing the same body, for two reasons. First and foremost - we could never achive such a diversity of oddly-looking non-standart (and cartoonish - it is obvious, just look at the pictures) caracters as we have in Daggerfall and the terrible lack of which I feel playing in all the following TES games. Here are some pictures to illustrate what I mean:
ImageImageImageImageImage

This could be achived only by creating individual models.

The paperdoll system could have make sense for roaming townsfolk, however: they all look the same and sprites for them were likely generated using similar approach. But here we face another problem. Towns are really crowded with them. Giving each of them their own inventory will increase the amount of required calculations tremendously! And, after all, the loot all npcs leave after them is always random and seems to have no connection neither to the type of npc nor to the way they fight. So instead I offer several premade townsfolk npc models which have different chance to appear depending on the region (it is obviously that in Sentinel the majority of the citizens are redguards, while in Wayrest we will likely meet more bretons in the streets).

The best place to use paper-doll approach is a pc inventory. I even made a fast sketch of how it could look like some years ago https://youtu.be/K9PqMZZ6Pdo(certainly I had very little modelling skills then, but the general idea was qite obvious.
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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby King of Worms » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:48 am

Id like to comment on the vampire model. I actually quite like it. Yes, the model is not 100% accurate, especially in the legs and textures part. Original sprite has much stronger legs, more muscle... and longer. Also original has more muscle on the shoulder area. Texture colours are inaccurate - but as the creator said, hes not into the texturing. Original hes greenish boots, and rest of the colours are more or less different as well.

What I like is the animation, and the general standard of execution. With few touches, this could be perfect. Work on legs/arms some more, and let someone do the textures based on the original colours and we have a nice accurate model. My opinion...

PS: Its could be a nice option for ppl who love models, I for myself will stay with the flats I guess, originals or redrawn if someone can do that.
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Biboran
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby Biboran » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:20 am

There can be some variation of paperdolls abd their heads. But actually all 3d human NPCs looks like use same set of models. Also, this will allow them to wear what they have in their random loot.
charlieg
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby charlieg » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:33 am

rhymer wrote:Here is the Ancient Vampire:

Image
Image

Yet more fantastic work.

These 3D models would be a huge upgrade on the 2D sprites, but I imagine there's so many to do. I hope you keep at it! The more that are done, even if animations are missing, the more powerful the outreach for contributors who can take up missing animations/models. It's also good to have a consistent style.
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rhymer
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby rhymer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:52 am

Tweaked proportions a little and added some details.
Image
Forgot to mention that I used Mixamo https://www.mixamo.com for animating. It is easy and you get a perfectly rigged and animated characters adapted for Unity. It really helps when you can't rig and animate as I do.
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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby King of Worms » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:00 pm

In case constructive criticism is still welcomed... :)

1) The hood has different shape on a new model than on the old sprite

2) It has also different colour, original is brown, new one is red. The colour of the rest of the coat is off too (brown original, red remake) - I think the texturing should come strictly from old colours, not changing brown to red, green to blue etc. Just keep the original style.

3) Speaking of textures - I dont like the added new "top to bottom" brown stripe on the body clothing.

4) Thighs should be more muscular according to original

5) Boots have different colour than original - I guess you wanted to create a estheticaly pleasing vampire which has matching colour of his boots and jacket the way we do it nowadays, but this vampire... he aint too much into fashion, he has blue jacket and green boots, he doesnt care :lol:

But yea, generally I think given just few touches here and there, this could be very good. Thanks for your efforts!
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Biboran
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby Biboran » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:33 pm

Hm, this verison is already much more good than first one. What King of Worms said and also some work on head and legs and it will be actually close to original.
Also, about animation - it was originaly like... more fast and aggresive.
ifkopifko
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby ifkopifko » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:42 pm

rhymer wrote:Tweaked proportions a little and added some details.

Hi there, it looks very nice. :-) Reading the different opinions, I would like to throw in mine.

Probably everyone considers some different aspect of the original sprites to be essential. The new model has a stylish hood, shirt sleeves, and looks cool walking. The original sprite does not look cool, it looks creepy and moves even creepier/unearthly. That is what I consider essential, the creepiness.

For me, the exact coulours are not important, neither is the musculature on legs or arms. After changing the animation to something more appropriate for a vampire I think it will be fine. (Ok ok, I know vampires in Twilight are cool and stylish and all, but... this is DF, the most scary RPG in history.)
I would change the hood shape though, to mask the face a bit more. :-P
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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby King of Worms » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:45 pm

Yup, I agree the animation is too cool looking. My impression from the original sprite and its animation is that this vampire is very strong/buff but he is also fast as hell. Yes, creepy unearthy beast he is. Animation of the new model is like a avarage hombre on the beach walking. Original sprite is stiff and rude, going for you! New animation is too chilled. But thats just mine impression, I dont want to sound rude about this mod at all as I think it has a big potential

Edit: Id like to see how cca 2x speed up animation actually looks like, so the new model walks as fast as original
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rhymer
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Re: Daggerfall Unity Models Overhaul

Postby rhymer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:19 pm

I intentionally have chosen that animation as more menacing, showing that (opposite to the original jerky robot-like animation) you've faced a supreme predator, he has no need to run, he'll get you anyway. The original animation is not good or bad - there is almost no animation, because there are only 4 frames of it. But if you like, here is the animation 2,5 times faster. Looks comical, isn't it?
Image


However, I have no intention to work on the vampire anymore - at least until there is any real possibility to put it in game. There are plenty of other flats waiting to become 3d.

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