Wilderness Overhaul

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Daniel87
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Daniel87 »

Hazelnut wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:49 pm Ah, okay. Not sure what side effects that might have as locations are done in a co-routine. Also not sure how you'd do that in a mod. Is your code in github, I might take a look see what you did.
So far I only have done it locally on my machine. Didn't have time to push it yet.
I have two versions of Daggerfall Unity, one on Github which is a clean one without mods, where I just do the changes to the main game to do PRs and one for modding where I mess around and test things first that runs locally. I did it this way, since I am new to using GitHub and still got my issues with the system. Got a lot of work incomming this week, so maybe end of the week I can push it. But actually all the code can be seen in the screenshot. Its really only that red indicator (616), where I removed the code segment which I pasted in the two green indicated areas a couple of lines below.
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Last edited by Daniel87 on Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hazelnut
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Hazelnut »

That will mean that you're laying out locations twice except for the player terrain. At best inefficient, at worst you will have duplicate buildings there - no idea really. The update locations called later would need removing, and I suspect that even then it will affect the situations where many locations are within terrain distance but again not really sure. I think Interkarma would need to weigh in on this kind of change as he wrote the streaming world system - I just read the code and modified it a bit to add some parallel execution where possible.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Daniel87
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Daniel87 »

Hazelnut wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:00 pm That will mean that you're laying out locations twice except for the player terrain. At best inefficient, at worst you will have duplicate buildings there - no idea really. The update locations called later would need removing, and I suspect that even then it will affect the situations where many locations are within terrain distance but again not really sure. I think Interkarma would need to weigh in on this kind of change as he wrote the streaming world system - I just read the code and modified it a bit to add some parallel execution where possible.
You definitely know more about the code than me. This is just the dirties solution I could think of after a very long night and several hours wondering why my raycasts didn't collide until I finally realized that the load order was not supporting my plan :D
The second insertion of the code was done because somehow collision only worked for newly discovered places but not the location the player loaded into the game. Somehow this fixed it, but I have no idea at what cost.

haloterm
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by haloterm »

Daniel87 wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:48 pm Yeah at least for the jungle biome, I also totally dig it!
Maybe I will do the same within other climates but just let flowers and smaller bushes grow there. I will experiment around with it.
If that's optional it could be cool. I am using the Real Grass mod, and it would be good if other mod's plants would not visually disturb this.

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Daniel87
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Daniel87 »

haloterm wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:05 pm
Daniel87 wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:48 pm Yeah at least for the jungle biome, I also totally dig it!
Maybe I will do the same within other climates but just let flowers and smaller bushes grow there. I will experiment around with it.
If that's optional it could be cool. I am using the Real Grass mod, and it would be good if other mod's plants would not visually disturb this.
Well it most certainly will interfere as my mod utilizes vegetation in the worldmap. But in cities you can turn it off.

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Midknightprince
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Midknightprince »

Daniel87 wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:41 pm Basically it's compatible with any heightmap mod. The only problem will be the placement of trees on Roads for BasicRoads, but I will come up with a solution for this, and Oasis in the desert will spawn on hillsides and hilltops instead of valleys. Not sure if I can fix that.
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Re: Believable Wilderness

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Oasis in the desert will spawn on hillsides and hilltops instead of valleys. Not sure if I can fix that.
If you don't "fix" this, consider it an unintentional immersion bug. I grew up in a very hilly/mountain region, with a climate bordering on desert, being at the base of the sierra nevadas. It is very common for hilly terrain to form small ponding basins where more vegetation tends to grow and last longer through dry seasons; Here, a pawning basin is what we term shallow pools that collect water and resupply the aquifer. Where I lived, in the central valley, the city required builders to create a ponding basin for every set amount of development square footage to try and offset the lose of natural ones and the damage to the long term aquifer health. You drive around the city, and you will find fenced off small to large pools throughout the city; they even dredge the bottom every decade or so to ensure the natural flow keeps up.

When I would fly fish early spring run off in the hills, I would hike and find pools and ponds every where in the hills teaming with life. They are a natural and critical part of a semi-arid to moist hill climate and ecosystem by providing catching and storing smaller amounts of water. Also, there are numerous instances of oasis forming in hills and mountains from the underlying ground/aquifer getting over charged by runoff from other areas.
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Daniel87
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Daniel87 »

l3lessed wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:53 pm
Oasis in the desert will spawn on hillsides and hilltops instead of valleys. Not sure if I can fix that.
If you don't "fix" this, consider it an unintentional immersion bug. I grew up in a very hilly/mountain region, with a climate bordering on desert, being at the base of the sierra nevadas. It is very common for hilly terrain to form small ponding basins where more vegetation tends to grow and last longer through dry seasons; Here, a pawning basin is what we term shallow pools that collect water and resupply the aquifer. Where I lived, in the central valley, the city required builders to create a ponding basin for every set amount of development square footage to try and offset the lose of natural ones and the damage to the long term aquifer health. You drive around the city, and you will find fenced off small to large pools throughout the city; they even dredge the bottom every decade or so to ensure the natural flow keeps up.

When I would fly fish early spring run off in the hills, I would hike and find pools and ponds every where in the hills teaming with life. They are a natural and critical part of a semi-arid to moist hill climate and ecosystem by providing catching and storing smaller amounts of water. Also, there are numerous instances of oasis forming in hills and mountains from the underlying ground/aquifer getting over charged by runoff from other areas.
Sounds so amazing! Are there pictures of this on Google maps?
What i meant was, that Oasis spawn right at the slope and the water tiles have a strong slope instead of being horizontal. I will try and write a function that finds a local minimum and a 3x3 tile grid of dirt texture before spawning a water tile right into the centre of it. But those places might be scarce.

l3lessed
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by l3lessed »

Here you go. I grabbed some from my personal collection and some from google searches for the area I grew up in and the formations I am speaking of.

Here is a semi-fresh ponding basin. These form throughout the hilly regions, especially in spring to early summer. They provide a riparian habitat for a number of months or throughout the dry parches summers, if there is a underground flow feeding them.
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Here is another one that formed from high flow/rain levels
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You can see a larger Arial shot here of one that has formed. This one is large enough and low enough in the valley, it will shrink but should stay throughout the dry months.
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Here is what one looks like after suffering through a few months of the dry hot summers here. Temperatures hover in high 90's to low 100's (Usually not above 112) for 6 months of the year. Other three months are spring with about 10 to 15 days of rain max. The last three months are dry, cold, desert winter that drops to 30s. and 40s. Point being, these can last despite not getting rain for 330 to 340 days and having to make it through desert like conditions.
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Here's a small one, but it will feed larger ones it trickles into.
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Here is the last high country lake in the long chain that leads down to the valley and feeds all the ponding basin and aquifers. This lake is sitting a little over 10,000 feet and took about 30 miles of backpacking to get to. It's a perfect example of seasonal glacier lakes that feed the below hills and valleys that are hundreds of miles away.
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Here is the drainage valley we hiked up to get to it. Might be nice example for trying to replicate high mountain terrain in game.
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Here is one of the lower run offs from the above watershed that is a seasonal creek and turns into a ponding basin over summer until the next melt.
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Here's another one. This is part of the same system that runs hundreds of miles through the high sierra and feeds a massive underwater aquifer and ponding basin system.
Image
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Daniel87
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Re: Believable Wilderness

Post by Daniel87 »

l3lessed wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:38 pm Here you go. I grabbed some from my personal collection and some from google searches for the area I grew up in and the formations I am speaking of.
Thank you for the reference pictures, they are beautiful!
You really live in a blessed nature environment there :)

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