Discussion on future 3D modelling

Discuss modding questions and implementation details.
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TheLacus
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by TheLacus » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:02 pm

Hi NikitaTheTanner. It's great to see someone taking the initiative on this and i agree with your points.
I've only made showcases for the modding system lately, but some time ago i redesigned some of the most simple models, maybe this can be used as a start.
Of course i will help with the technical details of releasing a mod if it's necessary.
If you are interested in creating mods for Daggerfall Unity you can find the documentation here.

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Arl
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by Arl » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:17 pm

As a bright point, those who are worried about inconsistency between artist, let me tell you that vanilla Daggerfall has quite an inconsistent art style, especially in the bestiary. So, I think that with a little bit of quality control, we can achieve a better result.

I'm already working on a bear as a proof of concept:
Spoiler!
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My Deviantart page, I have some Daggerfall stuff in there.

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Biboran
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by Biboran » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:30 pm

I had my dream version of dagerfall to - with thief2 tier graphics, with might and magic7-8 type landscape, with hand-maded cities and more unicle regions, with dwemer and nordic and direnni ruins, with more quests and more developed factions, with roads and objects between cities. I had all plans in head, but I understand that some stuff probably never happen. Like still, to morrowind nobody does HD head and body replacer that 100% follow original style. :lol:

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NikitaTheTanner
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by NikitaTheTanner » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:22 pm

with hand-maded cities
This is probably impossible to do, simply because there are too many cities. But I hope that once the DF Unity 1.0 is out of the door, we can think of some ways to improve the world to include more details, including the cities. It would be very sweet to see random cities layed out with streets, squares, open markets, farmland outskirts, sewers and more. It should be possible, why not? Though, of course, would take a lot of work.

Back to the matters at hand, though. I am glad to see Lacus' reply and Arl's work. I think what we would need in the near future is a separate branch on the forum, which we can name "Daggerfall Unity Full3D" or something like that. It could be like a hub, for all the future development, where we can discuss, plan and implement various models into the game.

Because there are many questions we need to talk about, both technical and stylistic. I propose a 4 step system to work:
1) Concept stage - we generally talk about how best to implement certain set of objects, e.g. rocks, flora, armour, characters, etc.
2) Planning stage - we separate work into pieces, define priorities and create claims for models
3) Implementation stage - one modder claims a model and must report on progress every so often, preferably with screenshots
4) QA stage - we insert finished model into the game and test how it works

What do you guys think? I think it would be most practical to implement such a system in the near future to get the process started, even if it would go slowly.

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Biboran
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by Biboran » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:53 pm

Problem that all had their own visions, and The Lacius don't like 90s 3d, I think lol.

Actually what I for a long time want to ask, is there way to make editor for cells from which daggerfall cities created. Like by creating new detailed cell possible to create more detailed landscape and cities.

Also - best start to make it bu yourself. Start make models, concepts, I will help you :D

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Interkarma
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by Interkarma » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:21 pm

For what it's worth, I also love the look of Thief-level tech. It's low-poly, but very consciously designed to make the most of those polygons. If someone were to replace Daggerfall's monsters with 3D models (for example), I would prefer them to look a bit angular and low-poly like the Thief models vs. crisp and round like modern models.

Same with textures, I would love to see maybe 2x - 4x the current resolution, but still have that retro feel about them.

It's a hard one to be sure, because not everyone will have the same tastes. But that's the secret to mods anyway - they aren't there to make everyone happy. A mod exists to make people who will enjoy that mod happy. Everyone else.... just doesn't need to use that mod. :)

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Jay_H
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by Jay_H » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:02 am

Another game that's borderline era would be Deus Ex. It was also created by Ion Storm just shortly after Thief 2, before the smooth-and-round 200Xs, so it uses blocky body types but higher res textures. Here are some sample images:
Spoiler!
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**INDEFINITE HIATUS** Current priority list: 1. Writing new DFU quests; 2. Writing Archaeologist content; 3. Revamping classic DF quests. Only in free time, no guarantees made.

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Biboran
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by Biboran » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:22 am

Problem that Deus Ex had compleatly different style

And ghraphic more advanced, a litlle bit more and it be morrowind-level :D

Quake 1 fan maps looks coll but low poly too

Image

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Might and Magic 6 landscape. Actually this game - what daggerfall will be if game had more small scale, but created without using random generation

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Spoiler!
Also, we really need [hsimg] function, pictues are too big
Actually, really, NikitaTheTanner - you may create new threda with something like "Daggerdall recreated planning" - or something like this, where all people can not just make big posts of doom where they throw all their ideas, but where we can analayse information from tes2 and other games to create planning document for vision of more advanced and finished daggrfall of our dreams :lol: At least I drop all what I created in my head for betony.

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TheLacus
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by TheLacus » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:42 pm

What's important is that the Daggerfall artistic view is preserved. I don't think this necessarily means low poly but i'm fine with that, too. I like the screenshots posted by biboran.
What i would put the focus on, is invest efforts on something that is actually achievable, and i believe thief-like graphic is something we could actually get to see in the game so i'm totally fine with this direction.

Personally, i don't mind too much 2d charachters and enemies, but i would love to see some pigs and horses with looped animations around towns, i hope to see more of what Arl is doing.
If you are interested in creating mods for Daggerfall Unity you can find the documentation here.

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NikitaTheTanner
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Re: Discussion on future 3D modelling

Post by NikitaTheTanner » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:28 pm

Cool! So I guess that we got the consensus for now and can start working slowly. I am only learning 3D modeling right now and so far, the hardest part is UV mapping and texturing models.

As for style, I myself do not mind 2D at all, in fact, 2D sprites can be way cooler than 3D. Look at Doom mods, for example. Brutal Doom completely rocks, while some 3D remakes suck ass.

But Daggerfall is TES game after all, I believe that making it 3D will help bring some gameplay changes as well. For example, I would love NPCs to be like they are in Morrowind, not different type of sprite for enemies, townsmen and characters, but rather one type of NPC with inventory, stats, race, etc. Also, combat system would change a lot with animated 3D enemies, become more diverse, when enemies are not only different because of the stats, but also because of the move sets. I would love that.

Image

Here's an example of very slightly improved cart by me. I tried to keep it as simple as possible, but it needed a makeover, because original was just completely flat. Maybe, I can add more details later if needed, it's more of a first try. Would like to see it in game, to know how well it fits. Lacus, can you help with it? If yes, what file format is the best?

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