Windows #30: Monster Colliders too big.

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kingOfWyrms
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Windows #30: Monster Colliders too big.

Postby kingOfWyrms » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:56 am

This is a minor problem I've found. Normally I'd ignore combat-related bugs as being part of an as-of-yet unfinished system, but this one is a problem with something that at least feels more final than, say, the hit detection or swing speed, so forgive me for bringing this up. On to the problem...

The colliders seem to be a bit too big as compared to vanilla Daggerfall. The thief by the pile of heads in Privateer's Hold is incapable of walking up the stairs there due to the shape and size of its collider.

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I've also noticed two monsters who are incapable of passing through doorways; the Centaur, and the staff-wielding spellcaster-type bandit. I haven't been able to test whether this problem exists in vanilla Daggerfall for these two though.

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Xaphir
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Re: Windows #30: Monster Colliders too big.

Postby Xaphir » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:02 am

I ran into this problem with a giant behind a door, didn't think too much of it; because at the time I was level 1 and almost dead. And, he was a giant after all. Until I *also* had the same thing happen with a lizardman. I thought, hmm. Ok.

Now, reading this and seeing your experience, I realize there was something wrong.
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Interkarma
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Re: Windows #30: Monster Colliders too big.

Postby Interkarma » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:48 am

It's conditional. Sometimes the colliders are too small (e.g. it's possible to surf rats).

First up, Daggerfall didn't use colliders in the modern sense. Its physical simulation was very basic, about on the level of raycasts. This is why you could so easily fall into the void between gaps either side of stairs for example.

Second, Daggerfall's mesh geometry is inconsistently built, bordering on very poor in many places. That shot with the thief at the bottom of the stairs is one of the problem spots, but there are much worse. There are spots where geometry from below juts into the level above to form a one-sided plane that can trap player completely. It works in Daggerfall because of the simple physics, but doesn't translate well into a modern engine. Just one of the many geometry challenges I need to work with.

I use some rather tuned capsules for player and monsters that work most of the time, but there still some sticking points. I'll keep on refining this over time, but a different approach may be needed one day for best results. I'm basically just seeing where things go with gameplay, and will do another pass over this down the track.

So yes, definitely a bug, but not solely because of the collider size. The best answer is probably "it's complicated". :)
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Xaphir
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Re: Windows #30: Monster Colliders too big.

Postby Xaphir » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:06 am

Interkarma wrote:It's conditional. Sometimes the colliders are too small (e.g. it's possible to surf rats).

.........So yes, definitely a bug, but not solely because of the collider size. The best answer is probably "it's complicated". :)


And when Interkarma says "it's probably complicated", you can best believe that's probably an understatement. :)
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Xaphir
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Linux 27: Monster Colliders

Postby Xaphir » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:16 am

I've been testing build 27 for Linux in dungeons. I'd like to report that I am not seeing monsters having any trouble whatsoever navigating the dungeons, so far. One nymph followed me all the way back to the exit of one dungeon, through doors and several flights of stairs. Still testing
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Interkarma
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Re: Linux 27: Monster Colliders

Postby Interkarma » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:32 am

Thanks for the feedback. It's going to depend on the dungeon geometry more than the enemy colliders themselves. Some of that geometry is really bad. Larger enemies will struggle more than smaller ones.

It's easy to trick out the enemies when you know the right spots, but it's still a huge improvement over vanilla. I'm pretty happy with it for this stage of the project.
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Jay_H
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Re: Linux 27: Monster Colliders

Postby Jay_H » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:38 am

Interkarma wrote:It's easy to trick out the enemies when you know the right spots, but it's still a huge improvement over vanilla. I'm pretty happy with it for this stage of the project.

Oh, yeah. I can't wait 'til I meet my first Vampire Ancient at level 3, and as I try to run and run through endless halls to get away, I'll hear its obscene growling just inches behind me the whole way... :D
Come give your feedback on the ideas in my general thread, and share your Daggerfall characters in the character thread.
Safe-for-work sprite mod here. Guide for new Daggerfall players here. Daggerfall Mechanics thread here.
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Interkarma
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Re: Linux 27: Monster Colliders

Postby Interkarma » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:44 am

Jay_H wrote:Oh, yeah. I can't wait 'til I meet my first Vampire Ancient at level 3, and as I try to run and run through endless halls to get away, I'll hear its obscene growling just inches behind me the whole way... :D


:lol:

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