Classic quests in DFU

For all talk about quests. Creating, testing, bugs, and development progress.
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Hazelnut
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Classic quests in DFU

Post by Hazelnut » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:41 pm

I've now tried half a dozen quests, and half of them were impossible because I was being sent to kill something that couldn't be hurt by the weapons I have availiable at level 3. I honeslty thought when I found an Elven sword I was pretty lucky but next quest was to kill a gargoyle which elven isn't up to hurting. Is this something that happens in classic - I don't have the experience with it to know. Just seems a little broken to give such a quest to lvl 3 char. Is it classic, or because DFU is still bootstrapping quests while they're in development?

(I resorted to using tele2qspawn after an hour since with the latest combat tweaks I'm struggling to beat the skellies - they kill me half the time. Also the teleports are evil. Surely the dungeons were convoluted enough.. :D Glad I did when I found I couldn't even hit the target.)

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Jay_H
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Jay_H » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:53 pm

In classic, quests are sorted by a minimum reputation requirement. That's a semi-functional filter to ensure you don't get too far over your head too soon. The gargoyle quest you reference has a reputation requirement of 50, meaning you'd have to complete at least 10 Fighters Guild quests successfully before it can be offered to you.

That alone won't filter fully, though. So this contributes to Daggerfall's reputation as a kind of "exam first, lesson after" game, where trial and error are king :)

Right now DFU has no reputation requirements, so anything can be offered to anyone. If you just want to see the quest completed you could use the "killall" command in the console, though that's not what you've intended here.

I will say DFU seems a lot more cutthroat in its combat than classic did, at least in my experience. I'll report more on how I think it diverges from classic once more systems are set in place.
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Hazelnut
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Hazelnut » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:02 pm

Thanks, just wanted to check it was because not everything is implemented yet. I think that Allofich's recent combat upgrade swung things a little too far in the favor of the enemies, but that could be cos my char is lvl 3 mage.

I know he wants feedback on the change to allow mobs to move when attacking at half speed. I've changed it to a quarter speed to see if that feels any better.

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Interkarma
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Interkarma » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:02 pm

Jay sums things up perfectly. I'll just add that the intent of quest offers right now is to test execution flow of quest scripts, not so much to play for fun. :)

When quest system debuted in the Fighters Update, I mention the following in the blog post. I'll just quote it here for others who came along after the Fighters update and might also be struggling with this.
The quest system is now open! Visit any Fighters Guild and speak to the usual quest giver to receive a random guild quest. Be sure to bring your strongest character, because quests span everything the Fighters Guild has on offer, from rats to liches.
Fighters turned out to be valuable update. People caught dozens of bugs in the quest system, and it provided Jay with a standing bulletin board to distribute his quests to testers. The focus is more on main quest execution now in the Vengeance cycle, but the Fighters stuff will remain until guild system is properly built out.

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Hazelnut
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Hazelnut » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:35 pm

I knew that, but forgot... :oops: Yes, leave this here as a reminder.

Anyway I got the testing done I needed to do while dungeoneering, and also got a handle on the change to combat balance of Allofich's changes. It's almost impossible to kite enemies now without a really long & safe hallway. I found that having the mobs stand still when attacking gave me just enough time to reorient my view before swinging weapon again. This is the hardest part of combat for me.. that weapon swinging stops you being able to change the way you're looking.

It could also just be I am crap at the game. :lol:

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Jay_H
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Jay_H » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:57 pm

No, it really is that hard. I would prefer enemy movement reducing to 1/4 during attack. Right now there's practically no way to avoid damage; I've already lost several characters to bats alone.

If someone wants to mod a "click to attack" combat mode, maybe that would make things easier :)
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Hazelnut
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Hazelnut » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:41 pm

I started a new warrior char in DFU and completely cleared PH for the first time. In there the combat change was managable, and it was fun. I even found the item looting bug and fixed that while I was at it. Anyway balance in starter dungeon seems ok, as long as you know what you're doing and you have as many hit points as a mage several levels higher. :-)

I took a quest and got absolutely destroyed even with my better equipment. The quest messed up as well, not sure why but I was reloading a lot until I gave in and tele2qspawn. Mummy had no wrappings for me.

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Interkarma
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Interkarma » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:05 pm

Hazelnut wrote: I took a quest and got absolutely destroyed even with my better equipment. The quest messed up as well, not sure why but I was reloading a lot until I gave in and tele2qspawn. Mummy had no wrappings for me.
I'll see if I can repro this on my end. A couple of recent changes might have broken this. Would you still have one of those saves I coud look at as well?

Edit: No need for the save mate. Have been able to reproduce, will fix on weekend sometime. Cheers for letting me know! :)

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Interkarma
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Interkarma » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:37 pm

Jay_H wrote:No, it really is that hard. I would prefer enemy movement reducing to 1/4 during attack. Right now there's practically no way to avoid damage; I've already lost several characters to bats alone.
I agree the enemies are too fast and hard to avoid at the moment. It's still possible to clear with practice and a fairly optimal build, but newcomers are going to be turned off by the difficulty. I do think it's a lot harder than even classic at this point.

Edit: I've slowed down enemy movement speed while attacking from 50% to 33%. If dodging their attacks is still too difficult, a further reduction to 25% will be in order. Perhaps this system can be tuned to selected reaction time in future?

I definitely like the challenge, but don't want thinks to feel impossible for newcomers either.

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Jay_H
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Re: Classic quests in DFU

Post by Jay_H » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:01 pm

Yeah, enemy attack speed is the only thing (AFAIK) that's adjusted by reflex level. Right now we're above the highest setting. My testing showed, for the skeletal warrior, the skeleton attacked 63 times in 120 seconds on Very High, and 34 on Very Low. I feel confident we're faster than that right now, but I haven't tested it in DFU yet.
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