Persistent Dungeons

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Blowingsand
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Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by Blowingsand »

pango wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:33 am If you provide a game save, someone may have a look...
My most recent save folder

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pango
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Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by pango »

Blowingsand wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:26 am After getting quest item, I'm back in Daggerfall and a letter is delivered. Apparently someone on the same quest has been taken prisoner in the harpy dungeon and needs to be rescued. So I go back to the same dungeon and all the harpys have returned, too. If there is a setting, that actually makes this mod work, I'd love to hear from you.
This is all just one quest (K0C0XY01), that will keep spawning harpies for a while:

Code: Select all

        create foe _F.00_ every 21 minutes 15 times with 25% success 
Persistent Dungeons can't help you with that
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

Blowingsand
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by Blowingsand »

pango wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:12 am
Blowingsand wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:26 am After getting quest item, I'm back in Daggerfall and a letter is delivered. Apparently someone on the same quest has been taken prisoner in the harpy dungeon and needs to be rescued. So I go back to the same dungeon and all the harpys have returned, too. If there is a setting, that actually makes this mod work, I'd love to hear from you.
This is all just one quest (K0C0XY01), that will keep spawning harpies for a while:

Code: Select all

        create foe _F.00_ every 21 minutes 15 times with 25% success 
Persistent Dungeons can't help you with that
So persistent quest spawn trumps persistent dungeon. :lol:
Thanks for taking the time, pango.

Lorex
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:35 pm

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by Lorex »

I think I found a bug that I can reproduce consistently, at least in my game.

When Im inside a dungeon (only tried in PH but I supposed it is the same for all) if I save/exit/reload they don't respawn, but if I exit and re-enter the dungeon, and then I save/exit/reload they alway respawn.

Instead If I exit the dungeon, save/exit/reload outside, then re-enter they never respawn.

So in order to not make them respawn, every time I have to exit the game first I must exit the dungeon and save/exit outside.

Hope it's clear :D

edit: my settings were 360/2/99.

L57
Posts: 207
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by L57 »

Lorex wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:13 pm I think I found a bug that I can reproduce consistently, at least in my game.

When Im inside a dungeon (only tried in PH but I supposed it is the same for all) if I save/exit/reload they don't respawn, but if I exit and re-enter the dungeon, and then I save/exit/reload they alway respawn.

Instead If I exit the dungeon, save/exit/reload outside, then re-enter they never respawn.

So in order to not make them respawn, every time I have to exit the game first I must exit the dungeon and save/exit outside.

Hope it's clear :D

edit: my settings were 360/2/99.
Apparently I have the same bug as well. Good to hear bad guys won't respawn at least if you saved and reloaded game outside the dungeon, thanks for the info.

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Elricwulf
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Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by Elricwulf »

Lorex wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:13 pm I think I found a bug that I can reproduce consistently, at least in my game.

When Im inside a dungeon (only tried in PH but I supposed it is the same for all) if I save/exit/reload they don't respawn, but if I exit and re-enter the dungeon, and then I save/exit/reload they alway respawn.

Instead If I exit the dungeon, save/exit/reload outside, then re-enter they never respawn.

So in order to not make them respawn, every time I have to exit the game first I must exit the dungeon and save/exit outside.

Hope it's clear :D

edit: my settings were 360/2/99.
I can confirm this bug/quirk as well from my game last night. For clarity I will use the terms "Leave" the Dungeon and "Exit" the game and State remembered (Killed Monsters still dead, taken loot is still gone) :
1) Leave dungeon, Reenter ==> correct State is remembered
2) Leave Dungeon, Save, Exit, Reload, Reenter dungeon ==> Correct State remembered
3) Save inside Dungeon, Exit Game, Reload ==> Monsters will respawn (right next to player too!) I think loot piles are still gone..at least it was on one time I noticed (No fair! If monsters come back, I want the loot too! :lol: )

My Settings for Remembering States are Dungeon = 10 days, Corpses Decay = 7, Dungeons to remember 10-12 I think?

What would seem to be happening is the Dungeon state is kept in memory as long as you are in the game, but when you Exit and Reload, it isn't Saved for some reason unless you had Saved outside the Dungeon (which seems to confirm what others have said here) I will know for sure when I load up my game today and return to the dungeon and see if the state is remembered after an extended absence (still within the Remember Settings range though) and loading different locations, etc. (I pray to Stendarr that the pain-in-the-arse 'Mummy's are STILL dead for my new 3rd lvl char. :shock: )

Hope this helps, I don't have any mods afaik that affect dungeons but this one. I had smaller dungeon flag set early in playthrough, but I turned it off because I thought it was messing up dungeon builds to where I couldn't exit (turned out to be a known issue with latest DREAM release after all) but I never turned the flag back on. Let me know if you need any more info, and I will post any other findings if I notice any other behaviour.

L57
Posts: 207
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by L57 »

3) Save inside Dungeon, Exit Game, Reload ==> Monsters will respawn (right next to player too!) I think loot piles are still gone..at least it was on one time I noticed (No fair! If monsters come back, I want the loot too! :lol: )
Are you sure with this one? In my limited experience it was the case if I save inside the dungeon, then leave the dungeon, then go back into dungeon AND reload after all that. I have not tested this intentionally though, may be wrong. I think I pretty often reloaded saves inside other dungeon and it was ok. Probably bug appears if you clear the dungeon, exit, return inside, save and reload that save... I think there is no bug if you clear the dungeon for the first time.

I'd also add that apparently sometimes monsters respawn while you're next to them. I mean, I returned into Privateer's Hold, have looked at the corpses of imps, bats, etc. Then I walked into the deeps and then I heard these enemies... more and more of them.

This works really strange sometimes. But, as I see it, as far as you don't reload save inside the dungeon (save which was done during PREVIOUS visit), this bug appears not to pop up.

So it works like this in my opinion:

works well, or relatively well, if

1) If you go into the dungeon for the first time, it's safe to save and reload inside unless you decided to go outside. No bugs;
2) If you decided to exit, you SHOULD save outside. If you reload that save later, the dungeon will behave well;
3) If you saved the game outside the (cleared) dungeon, then reloaded save, then returned into the dungeon and save/load there, still should work as intended. However, I'm less sure about this particular case;

works wrong, if

4) If you clear the dungeon, exit dungeon, return into the dungeon, save inside this dungeon and load that save — then bug is almost guaranteed.

Again, to prevent the latter case you'd better make a save outside the dungeon and reload this particular save outside the dungeon in future if possible. What will be if you did it but then have made new saves inside the dungeon during secondary visit and load these newer ones? Not sure here, but I think it would behave well. Need tests.

Anyway, even in the worst case this mod still works very good. This bug (if it works as in the worst scenario) basically prevents the player from exploiting this mod :D :D :D You have to clear the dungeon during your first visit and then you can return WITHOUT BUGS to quickly pick up loot as many times as you need, until the condition to save/load outside is met. Relatively satisfying trade-off after all. :lol:

So there are two simple rules to make this mod work as intended:

1) if you're during your first visit in the dungeon, load only those save files which were done during this first visit;
2) if you're during the second visit, load save files which were done during the second visit (edit: this one doesn't hold!) OR outside the dungeon after clearing (edit: this one holds!).

Gonna test that later. :)
Last edited by L57 on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

L57
Posts: 207
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by L57 »

Well, already tested this. :D

Rule 2 partially doesn't hold. If you save and reload in the dungeon during the second visit, enemies will respawn.

Hence, you can safely reload save files inside the dungeon during the first visit (as mentioned earlier in the first rule). Once you cleared that, you'd better not save and reload inside this dungeon, unless it was already respawned normally according to mod settings.

That means that you still need to clear the dungeon during the first visit. Otherwise, if you reload inside this one, enemies will respawn.

But you can return and take the loot which you didn't for the first time. Just don't make new saves here — you killed everybody here anyway, so you can calmly pick up all the stuff.

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Elricwulf
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Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by Elricwulf »

Well, happy to say, that all Monster and Loot states were remembered as far as I could tell, upon returning to the dungeon after heading back to town, curing disease, shopping, etc. I had Saved *Outside* the dungeon, of course, before travelling, etc.

So it's working on that level. The only thing I had noticed before (which I'm too scared to test at the moment until I finish clearing this one out) is that this changes the basic functionality of Vanilla Daggerfall, where you could save inside of a Dungeon, Exit the game, Load the game up again whenever and Load that Save game inside the Dungeon and everything would still be dead, etc. in the same state it was. I can't confirm this 100% or say it's 100% Repeatable every time, but that was my experience when I was in the process of clearing the Dungeon (I had exited and reentered already) and Saved after killing several creatures and when I reloaded, A rat (which I had probably just killed) had spawned right next to me and was attacking me. I'll try to load some saves I made inside, but I wasn't chancing it earlier after having to basically kill the same Skeletons and Mummies like 3x in a row (in my previous session), finally learned my lesson. Lol
[EDIT]:Okay, yeah just confirmed again, loaded up one of the last Saves I made inside the Dungeon and a Mummy that I had just killed before saving was attacking me)

So basically, this means that the dungeon has me hostage, I either clear it completely without Dying or Saving/Reloading inside. Or if I absolutely have to Exit the game (due to Work/Sleep/other silly RL obligations, etc ;) ) then I have to trek all the way back out and save outside before I Exit the game. Lol makes me feel like I'm playing Final Fantasy I again in a way, have to go all the way back to the Inn to Save. Not a complete deal breaker, but it definitely requires a little more planning and strategy and discourages Save scumming, b/c if you're deep down in it, all the monsters you already killed will be waiting for you on the way out.. :o (Once I've cleared this one, I definitely think it may be time to give that Smaller dungeons flag a shot again..)

The only thing I haven't had a chance to test so far, that I can think of, is if I have a Recall point in Town and I recall from inside the Dungeon, then save, will it remember upon returning ? (or vice-versa Recall INTO a dungeon point and would it still remember its saved states correctly..)

L57
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Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Persistent Dungeons

Post by L57 »

Elricwulf wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:42 am [EDIT]:Okay, yeah just confirmed again, loaded up one of the last Saves I made inside the Dungeon and a Mummy that I had just killed before saving was attacking me)
But that was your second visit to the dungeon, right?

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