[Solved!] Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

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Gingerbreadman
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:52 pm

[Solved!] Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Gingerbreadman »

Hi everyone,

I'm doing the Cyndassa werewolf quest, specifically the alternative* pathline, and I've noticed some issues; although I'm not sure if those were already present in classic Daggerfall. This contains spoiler so, avoid reading it if you haven't completed it!
Spoiler!
Asking around for rumors lead you to know that a friend of Cyndassa's is brokenhearted (in my save, she's called Carolyn Wickford). She is apparently drowning her sorrow at a tavern because her boyfriend left her. This boyfriend happens to be Cyndassa's brother. (suspicion arise!)
According to these same rumors, this Carolyn could be found at the Fox&Dungeon tavern in "The white badger tavern, Daggerfall" (I'm sure this was a randomly picked location). However, once I arrived there, she was no where to be found. Not even in the tavern, not even in any residence.

Instead of trying to find her, I went to the quest dungeon, a laboratory in Betony. After much exploration, I found the two pieces of diary telling the real story: that Cyndassa made shapeshift her brother into a werewolf because he broke up with her friend (Yeah really. The court of Daggerfall really are a bunch of psychopath). The diary mentioned a random location where you can find Carolyn. Surprisingly, the mentioned location wasn't "The white badger tavern" like the previous rumor told me, but instead "the bleeding omen of Kynareth". So, instead of slaying the werewolf, I traveled there.

Once arrived at the kynareth temple, I indeed found Carolyn (finally!) ... but she couldn't be talked to.

I am aware that classic Daggerfall has those glitches sometimes, but this is my first alternative attempt to this quest (I actually just learned today that there was an another way to do it!). Is this quest bugged, or this might be just my save?

In summary/TLDR:
Issue1) Quest npc being referenced in the wrong location. Rumor suggest a different location than the actual one.
Issue2) Once found, the Quest npc is untalkable

Here are the mods that I am currently using:
Spoiler!
Archeologists
Basic Roads
Roleplay realism
TravelOptions
Beyond Ashes - Bounty Hunters
Climates & Calories
Shield Module
Meaner Monster
Physical Combat Overhaul
Skyshard
Kamer's Lootable dungeon container
Daggerfall Birds
DREAM (but not the Video and Hud)
Harvestable Crops
LimitedGoldShop
Npc Health Indicator
Location loader
Persistent dungeon (with ignore main quest dungeon off)
Villager Immersion Overhaul
Random Starting Dungeon
Potions of Illiac Bay
Realistic Wagon
Improved Interior Lightning
Rocks of Daggerfall
Mountains and Hills
Tavern Redone
Telescope
World Tooltips
Torch Taker
Unleveled Loot
Windmills of Daggerfall
And here is the quest pack that I'm also using:
Spoiler!
Towns Description and Details
Banditry and Travelling Merchant
Travelling Alchemist
Temples Order quest pack
Populated Building
Pilgrimage
Perform at tavern
theJF quest pack
Tavern Games
Quest pack 1
Warm Ashes
Cheers everyone,
Save.rar
The save that is subject to those two bugs. See the readme inside for instruction
(628.27 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
Last edited by Gingerbreadman on Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:53 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Interkarma
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Re: Cyndassa werewolf questline bugged [0.11.2]

Post by Interkarma »

Hey there. :) Please use a descriptive title such as "cannot find quest NPC" or "cannot speak with quest NPC" rather than just saying something is bugged. There are many ways things don't go as expected in Daggerfall's quests, so please also attach a zip of your save as close as possible to the described problem so we can investigate. Cheers!

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Interkarma
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Re: Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Interkarma »

Thanks so much for update and save. :)

In regards to rumours, the _tavern_ location is where you are intended to meet _barmaid_ (the witch contact). Due to quest logic, she is only placed in this location at the time you read the letter. Until then, she's stashed in an automatic home - a random location elsewhere in the region.

I can see that task _S.34_ has been triggered by reading letter, so "place npc _barmaid_ at _tavern_" should have fired as part of that task. But at this time NPC has not been relocated. I'll do a little more digging to try and understand why that happened.

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Gingerbreadman
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Re: Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Gingerbreadman »

Thanks for the help!
I've also noticed that S.08 is triggered when talking to her, despite having no dialogue popping up. Not sure if that might indicate something!

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Interkarma
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Re: Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Interkarma »

Gingerbreadman wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:01 pm Carolyn could be found at the Fox&Dungeon tavern in "The white badger tavern, Daggerfall" (I'm sure this was a randomly picked location). However, once I arrived there, she was no where to be found. Not even in the tavern, not even in any residence.
Just following up on this. When loading your attached save, Carolyn is placed to the Fox & Dungeon tavern in location Daggerfall/The White Badger Tavern for me. She's standing in the foyer area.

carolyn-wickford-fox&dungeon.jpg
carolyn-wickford-fox&dungeon.jpg (584.52 KiB) Viewed 134 times

She's still not interactable however, but I'm looking into that. Could you please try loading that provided save again and confirming she's present or not at tavern location? I'm running with zero mods, so wondering if that's related.

There are a few things to unpack with this one - most notably the misleading letter text vs. rumour text. I'll move to bug reports for that alone while we work out the other problem.

And just as a matter of interest, I started this quest clean by purging all other quests then rebooting Sx007 and was able to play through this part without any problems. I'm wondering if there was an unfortunate conflict with one of the other 170-odd quests running.

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Interkarma
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Re: Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Interkarma »

OK, I've worked out the problem with not being able to click on NPC. You've triggered task S.17 which is fired by causing any damage to the "brother" lycanthrope. This can happen at any time, regardless of whether you're on on the alternative path or not.

Code: Select all

_S.17_ task:
	injured _brother_ 
	have _relic_ set _S.15_ 
This actually creates a blocking issue where it's no longer possible to interact with _barmaid_ or complete optional path.

Code: Select all

_S.35_ task:
	when _S.08_ and not _mondead_ and not _S.17_ 
	add dialog for person _wereBrother_ 
	add dialog for item _relic_ 
	say 1014 
Task S.35 triggers the escort portion of quest. But it does not fire if you've previously injured the brother in any way ("not _S.17_"). You may have encountered him at some point and given him a slap. You definitely didn't kill him or the _mondead_ task would have triggered. I'm also wondering if enemy infighting resulted in the task being fired even if you didn't encounter him. I believe quest NPCs are excluded from infighting, but it has been a while so I'd need to confirm again.

Whatever the cause of the brother's injury, this explains why you can't interact with NPC. I'd like to refine this by removing the "not _S.17_" condition. It seems unfair to block out this pathway just because the brother took a little splash damage.

The misleading letter text also needs correction.

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Gingerbreadman
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Re: Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Gingerbreadman »

Thats weird. She's actually in two locations. I tested with my mods and I can confirm that you're right about her being in the white badger. She spawned only after picking up the letter like you suggested.

Lastly, I purged the non-story quest using the console and reseted the quest like you did. I was indeed able to talk to Carolyn!
Still, I'm not sure why they are several instance of the same quest running (like at least 10 copies of Warm Ashes). I think that'll be best if I purge them and restart them manually

Edit: Yes I remember that I hit her brother because he was blocking the way to my cart lol. I must say that this quest is indeed weirdly scripted. I think I'll remove this weird condition as a personnal fix. There's also the fact that she can only spawn after taking the letter...which dialogue wise makes more senses since she is saying "so you find my diary..." ... but gameplay-wise speaking, can leads to wasting time for searching her.

Thanks for the help!

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Interkarma
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Re: [Solved!] Cyndassa werewolf questline - Untalkable npc + wrong location reference [0.11.2]

Post by Interkarma »

Yeah, she's physically located to that tavern only after clicking "use" on the letter. Agree this could be refined, I don't see any reason not to just place her at the tavern right from the start. Daggerfall's quests sometimes do a lot of Rube Goldberg stuff that isn't necessary. And the conflicting info between letter and rumours is defo confusing.

Notes for my future self:
  1. Move _barmaid_ to _tavern_ earlier, not just after reading letter.
  2. Remove "not _S.17_" from S.35 task. This prevents alternate path breaking if brother gets a slap for any reason.
  3. Fix text macro disparity between rumours and letters.

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