[0.11.0 Beta] Daytime Outside Lighting TOO Bright

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Lokkrin Zhataros
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[0.11.0 Beta] Daytime Outside Lighting TOO Bright

Post by Lokkrin Zhataros »

New topic for possible old issue, because this issue still persists in DFU 0.11.0 Beta.
I believe King of Worms (among others) have discussed this issue recently and in the past.

DFU daytime outside lighting is far too bright compared to Vanilla DF, and also doesn’t match or adapt to the current weather like it does in Vanilla.

Vanilla DF daytime outdoor lighting gives a more accurate representation of the weather and overall daylight.
DFU on the other hand, shows Very Bright on ground and skybox and does not match the weather of what is supposed to be a very overcast day.

--the screenshot screenshot below is inaccurate and does not properly represent the issue--
Spoiler!
DF_Outside_Overcast.jpg
DF_Outside_Overcast.jpg (76.63 KiB) Viewed 286 times
Last edited by Lokkrin Zhataros on Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Interkarma
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Re: [0.11.0 Beta] Daytime Outside Lighting TOO Bright

Post by Interkarma »

Lokkrin Zhataros wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:49 pm DFU daytime outside lighting is far too bright compared to Vanilla DF
That's a valid criticism. The lighting in a modern PBR engine is rather difficult to match to a bygone software engine from the 90s because those old assets weren't built with PBR in mind. Without the right assets to fulfil the lighting model (i.e. normal and specular maps in addition to albedo), surface lighting often won't behave as desired. This isn't an easy solve using old assets, but I agree it could be better.

This is also complicated by ad-hoc material replacement. DFU has to support anywhere from 0% to 100% modded materials, and has to handle both kinds of materials side-by-side under the one lighting model. That's no easy task and there will always be some compromises here.

There is still a lighting review in the beta pipeline when we move from gamma to linear lighting. This will require a complete rework of all lighting in the game, and I'm more than happy to take this kind of feedback on board when that happens. To formalise this for you, I've added it to the beta roadmap now.

Lokkrin Zhataros wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:49 pm and also doesn’t match or adapt to the current weather like it does in Vanilla.
However, this statement is not factual. DFU absolutely adapts to weather and lighting conditions based on time of day, season, and weather. You can confirm this either by reviewing source or by using set_weather n from console (where n is a value between 0 and 6). Take note of how brightness and skybox change based on weather settings.

Your two screenshots are displaying different weather events. This is based on deterministic percentages and DFU might not "roll" the same weather event when importing a classic save. I also have a feeling weather rolls aren't triggered after classic import, I'd need to check. In any case, you'll need to set weather manually in console to match when attempting to make comparisons like this.

Here is DFU in roughly the same spot at midday (brightest time of day) while raining. Note the different skybox and lighting setup. This screenshot would have been a better example of rainy day lighting compared to your classic screenshot. The issue is nowhere near as bad as you presented it above.

dfu-weather.jpg
dfu-weather.jpg (295.67 KiB) Viewed 275 times

Lokkrin Zhataros
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Re: [0.11.0 Beta] Daytime Outside Lighting TOO Bright

Post by Lokkrin Zhataros »

Thank you Interkarma for the helpful and informative response. I apologize for the inaccurate information in my initial post. It was not my intention to be misleading. Shorty after posting I did a bit more experimenting with weather/lighting in DFU and realized my error in what I wrote. Holiday priorities and family took me away from getting back to correct this sooner. Only now I have a moment.

Based on my own experimenting and what you presented here, the outside daytime lighting issue is not nearly as bad as I initially assumed. Also, I was already aware of the fact that importing a classic save does indeed “re-roll” the weather, and stupid me didn’t factor that into my experimentation. Though I would still say that during certain times and weather events (like the one in my lower screenshot) the scene is still too bright compared to vanilla (only because I couldn’t seem to duplicate that lighting in vanilla DF).

But if anything, whether it’s asking questions or discussing and interacting with others, being on the DFU forums has proven to me that I’m a very ignorant fool. :D :roll:

Anyway, thank you for putting this issue on the Beta priorities list, and I understand it’s a complicated fix, and I don’t have any expectations on timing or anything. Changing from gamma to linear lighting seems interesting. I was aware of such discussion, but not all that much. It’ll be interesting how all that changes the lighting overall.

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King of Worms
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Re: [0.11.0 Beta] Daytime Outside Lighting TOO Bright

Post by King of Worms »

Thanks for adding it to roadmap :)

For me the issue is the brightness during the midday when its not raining, Im sure Ive already made a post about it and it was discussed before. At that midday time the game looks way too bright and it kills the mood. My estimate is, that if u reduce the light at that time of day to match the brightness of three hours before/after that, it will look good. Thats quite a lot. But thats why it looks so off now... just my opinion. Every reduction of brightness during midday will help.

Thank you, looking forward to the linear light as well

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