Is there a turquoise in your magical breeches?

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Narf the Mouse
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Re: Is there a turquoise in your magical breeches?

Post by Narf the Mouse »

Jay_H wrote:Oh yeah, that's the plan. Starting gold sums would be based on single digits -- the human enemies in Privateer's Hold would probably have between 5 and 10 gold on them. Iron equipment would sell between 1 (boots, dagger) and 6 gold (daikatana, cuirass) per piece. Rank 1 Fighter's Guild quests would offer like 40 gold. A horse would cost... maybe 300? Houses would start at several thousands, and large houses would cost several tens of thousands. And the value scaling in vanilla would have to be drastically reduced; Daedric can no longer be 128x the price of Steel. Gems would cost around 400, so they would be exorbitant by comparison only. (And unless you have a brilliant Mercantile and Personality, you probably won't be able to sell it for above 100...). I'm just bringing numbers off the top of my head, so I don't expect them to be balanced yet.

This introduces the need for rank-exclusive guild quests, which is another idea I've had.
On the same chart, the income for a king in peacetime was 30,000 gp.

On a side note, if you divide the indicated wealth by level for PCs at 20th level in three and a half, you get a number around 40,000 gp. PCs are rarely involved in peaceful pursuits...

At level one in said RPG, you get an adjusted about [10, 20] gp per roughly-equivalent enemy killed. The rates for hiring someone in the equipment section are pretty much accurate. With an average professional skill at being a mercenary in the same game, you'd get about 1 gp/day, barring combat. Can't recall how accurate, but it sounds right to what I remember of what I've looked up.

So if you want realistic, you might want to add sp and cp; the rates for those generally hovered around 20 sp to gp and 12 cp to sp (and 240 cp to gp). Doing some math on an Int64 and you don't need separate values. And it'd be a good idea, I think, to store large values like that in an Int64 anyway, because why not? :)

And remember that buying full plate armour and a heavy war horse was the equivalent of buying a tank...And the plate armour would be most of the price. So while a ship would be expensive; you're looking at 500 gp+, not tens of thousands. :)
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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EpicSpellsword404
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Re: Is there a turquoise in your magical breeches?

Post by EpicSpellsword404 »

So... basically you're saying there's massive inflation in daggerfall?
What caused this, I wonder? :|

Narf the Mouse
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Re: Is there a turquoise in your magical breeches?

Post by Narf the Mouse »

EpicSpellsword404 wrote:So... basically you're saying there's massive inflation in daggerfall?
What caused this, I wonder? :|
Read the previous post for my guess. :) That is, it's probably due to everyone probably copying (maybe at several removes) the original tabletop RPG, which was set in an area in a gold-rush (or dungeon-looting-rush, I suppose, but that's awkward to say). Add in that big numbers look more "impressive/cooler"...

Heh. Reminds me of a story I found (probably in a Reader's Digest). Young mother is teaching her daughter how to cook a roast; "...then you cut the ends off the roast." Daughter asks "Why?" Young mother calls her mother; "Because that's the way grandma did it." They call grandma..."Because our roasting pan was too small, so I had to cut the ends off."

You'd be amazed (and perhaps horrified) how often that happens. For a related example, there were high-level military officers who denied that a carrier could ever really sink a battleship, even after tests revealed they could, and IIRC, even after it had happened in a live battle.

Never underestimate the power of intellectual inertia; or, we don't think about something until we think to think about it. :)
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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Jay_H
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Re: Is there a turquoise in your magical breeches?

Post by Jay_H »

EpicSpellsword404 wrote:So... basically you're saying there's massive inflation in daggerfall?
What caused this, I wonder? :|
I feel as though Daggerfall's rushed production schedule led to a lot of imbalances, one of which being the economy. If a player does Fighters Guild quests for one hundred days in real time, they may earn enough money to buy a house. On the other hand, just sell a Daedric Cuirass, and you'll be able to afford much more than that. Not even looting hundreds of enemies for their gold can compare to the equipment prices.

The economy scaling seems a bit like a placeholder to me:

Steel 1x
Silver 2x
Elven 4x
Dwarven 8x
Mithril 16x
Adamantium 32x
Ebony 64x
Orcish 128x
Daedric 256x (I was mistaken about the 128x)

The spell scaling analysis we've done also shows very real imbalances regarding magicka and gold costs. A lot of Daggerfall suggests that they were planning on having more time to fine-tune and beta test the numbers to make it all fair, and it was cut short. Morrowind's return to triple-digit plate mail prices shows a much more balanced use of numbers. Daggerfall's money system still serves its purpose and is a fun part of the experience, but once you start selling Daedric equipment, it feels like you've run into a brick wall at 150 km/h; the momentum ends and there's nothing left to do.

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EpicSpellsword404
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Re: Is there a turquoise in your magical breeches?

Post by EpicSpellsword404 »

Since when is buying every single house in the game "nothing?" :lol:
Seriously though, the economy does need a few changes.

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