facepalm

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Interkarma
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Re: facepalm

Post by Interkarma »

numidium3rd wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 4:58 pm To be fair, the locked thread in question was becoming a pile-on towards ForAllDanKind near the end (I'll admit to being part of it). I don't see how it could've been constructive to go on from there.
Yep, I didn't see any reason for it to remain open. That conversation was done and all our viewpoints had been aired. It was absolutely just turning into a pile on by that point. I thought it was a very reasonable time to end the discussion and move on.

I have more hopes for this one. Let's see how it goes.

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Ralzar
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Re: facepalm

Post by Ralzar »

Interkarma wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 5:18 pm
I have more hopes for this one. Let's see how it goes.
Hopefully to the second page of the forum :roll: :D
My released mods

"I feel like Ralzar specifically wrote those mods for me and then said "Use them". Just so he could watch me die more."
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Interkarma
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Re: facepalm

Post by Interkarma »

Ralzar wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 10:14 pm
Interkarma wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 5:18 pm
I have more hopes for this one. Let's see how it goes.
Hopefully to the second page of the forum :roll: :D
:lol:

Wait, we just bumped it... It's like "You have lost The Game", remember that one? Ah... crap. I think I just broke like a five year streak on The Game as well. Sorry to everyone else reading if I just spoiled your streak too. :(

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King of Worms
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Re: facepalm

Post by King of Worms »

Ok I dont really want to return to it but its necessary indeed to explain myself.

Lets see the post which led to the lock of the thread, it was the last post ForAllDankind made in that thread
What you mean people like me, who offer their professional skills developed over decades for free? Yeah kid it is. It's not a matter of patience, it is as you point out a matter of available free time. I have it now, in a few months time I probably won't and this project may likely be out of sight out of mind.

Also ignoring the point that there was a working method, now there isn't. It is just bad coding practice to replace a working method before you have developed a replacement. Think about it. If things were left the way they were until the new localisation features were ready, you'd have a working new UI today. Instead we're forced to have this conversation over basic coding fundamentals and how important they are to a project like this one.

Things right like keeping instructions up to date, and applying standard coding practice really helps avoid wasting people's precious spare time. Those are some ways you attract and retain people, otherwise you end up like the guys at ReactOS who have been "18 months from beta release" for the past 12 years, have like 6 guys doing all the work, and complain they have so much work to do with so little help.

And if someone comes along and points out a flaw in your methodology, it is not a personal attack, but a chance to level up your irl INT stat. Efficiency matters.

/OldManLecture
Yes its stingy. He was upset. And criticized.

He was frustrated because
It's just the most frustrating timing ever. i just finished reskinning the the whole UI (84 images) with better graphics and using a consistent font thoughout. Then I went though the old font making tutorial, installed unity, made a unity account, installed the unity hub, installed the package, made the sdf font, modded it, remade it, tried to install it and found it didn't work. Then with the new .fnt I searched for generators online which itself was a rabbit hole until I found one that works, except it doesn't because these .fnt files aren't compatible with win .fnt files. So I went to install textmesh pro but unity no longer has that in store, so I went searching for an archived version, found one and after clicking through 3 layers of ad-based link protectors was able to download and install it. Still can't see how my font will look ingame and the overall aesthetic.
Yes he made a mistake I guess, should have not poured the energy into something he was not sure is working. My understanding was, that if he follows the guidelines, it will work at the end of the day? And it seems its not the case? Happens. It also happens ppl get frustrated exactly at this point and it happens because we are humans.

Now

Ive read here he was calling ppl names, thats not truth - Ive read the whole thread again. Why create these false accusations? Do ppl really need to come up with false arguments to support their case? Why?

Anyway.

If you end up the post with "/OldManLecture" it means something like a "/rant off" "/OldManRant" etc TO ME. He realized hes ranting, and made it clear.

Now you have two options - lock the thread. To me, lock at this specific time means just one thing - STFU. We dont want to hear anything from you.
Thats not a best timing to do that. And the outcome of this reply - because thread lock is a reply - is absolutelly expected. I say EXPECTED - not justified!

It will turn that already frustrated person to the raging beast. And thats what happened. He got so upset he took all his work and vanished.
Now you can tell me it was all his fault, and I cant argue with that.

Yes, you was in the right. But no, that was NOT THE ONLY WAY this issue could be handled. I dont believe the discussion would continue much longer, if any, and the lock was unnecessary at that time. It was a catalyst which burned it all. The final dot.. I can understand you did not see where it will lead, but to me it was evident in the moment I saw that. And than it indeed happened.

Thats why I was so disapointed with it. I believe we can deal with frustrated ppl in a better way. No, its not our duty or obligation - but its a chance where we can make a difference. You was in right using the negative measurements against him, but if you used a possitive one, or silence, the outcome would be we would have the new interface and fonts and the argument would vanish.

I saw it as a failed oportunity to raise above the argument and come from a higher grounds.
I was also invested in it a bit more, because I supported this person from a start, shared the files with him and helped him thru the PMs...

I will not reply to every single post here. Just please, dont tell me what you think I would do if the person wrote on dream thread. I dealt with ppl there who were extremely disrespectful to me, calling me names for real, and thats when I told em what I think. This situation is not comparable, so lets not get there, the person who said it, has no idea about me (and thats understandable)

Bottom line is:

I failed as well as Dankind. I did not ground myself, and posted in anger. Im sorry about that. What makes me sad the most, is that I caused another drama and more importantly, put Interkarma and Jay in a possition where they did not deserve to be. Accusing them. That was wrong. Im sorry about that. Really!

As Ive said, I value the community here a lot, and Im glad to be a member of such a nice project. And indeed, I would not talk with members the way this person did. It was wrong. And Im atm preaching wine and drinking water, because I tell ppl here to come in a possitive way, yet I came up negative. I effed up, I know it.

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Interkarma
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Re: facepalm

Post by Interkarma »

Thank you for the post KoW. It's late here and I'll work on a fuller reply when I can. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the contact and hearing your side of things. Take care.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: facepalm

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Since it was my reply that sparked his old man's lecture rant, I do feel the need to say something.

The only thing I did was tell him to have some patience since this is a project done by people in their sparetime so sometimes you will just have to wait before you can do the thing you want to do. Interkarma had already posted at that time that he would update the instructions etc. once the localization features are ready. There was no criticism in either of our posts at that point.

This apparently didn't please Dan and instead of asking normal questions, he took an arrogant approach and spouted a rant about 'professional skills developed over decades' and how he has free time now and might not in a few months time. Should we drop everything and rush to his aid because he might not care in a few months. All that shows me is how invested he is in DFU, very little.

He then proceeds to talk about it being bad coding practice that the old way of creating fonts doesn't work anymore, completely ignoring the fact that the whole project is in an alpha state and that it's focus is to allow the original Daggerfall to be played on modern systems, not to showcase his font. I don't know why the old way of doing fonts was abandoned but I bet there was a good reason for doing so just like it's not a priority to support font modding when there are more important things to be worked on.

Keeping documentation up-to-date is undoable when you are still developing an application, you lose precious development time that way, any professional knows that.

His whole rant is just his Ego talking and that's exactly what a professional should lack, especially when voluntarily trying to contribute to a hobby project.

Nobody has any hard feelings against Dan or you but when people take a stance like he did, they can't be reasoned with, you can either capitulate or shut them down.
Daggerfall Unity on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
Daggerfall Unity on Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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Interkarma
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Re: facepalm

Post by Interkarma »

KoW, I truly appreciate the time you've taken here to express your thoughts. I was surprised to read your accusations towards me earlier about deleting posts. That's not something I've ever done, other than clearing out spambots. I'm not going to hide that the experience was hurtful coming from someone I trusted and thought I'd built an online friendship with over the last few years. I'm relieved to read your words above and know that we might continue past this and hopefully form a stronger friendship beyond it. Thank you, and I mean that.

I've read your comments thoroughly. Out of respect for you, I'll try better to deescalate in future and will try to explain moderator actions more clearly, including why a topic might have been locked. Please just take a minute to consider how difficult it is to maintain the peace in an open forum and that it's just not possible to keep everyone happy all the time. If you have concerns, please raise them with me in a PM. Openly railing against moderators only causes unnecessary drama.

I do think Digital Monk nailed it earlier in this topic. We're all under extra stress because of what's happening in the world lately. There's so we much can't control, so we try to find that control in smaller spaces like this one. After so many years of these forums remaining a consistently positive and productive environment, this has been an outright anomaly for us. I'm more than willing to accept that things aren't normal right now and look past it all.

Here's hoping for better days ahead, not just on these forums but for everyone on this rock.

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BadLuckBurt
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Re: facepalm

Post by BadLuckBurt »

Unless you were referring to my post directly above yours, I believe you mean Digital Monk :) Sorted :D

100% agreed, these are stressfull times and this place actually helps keep me sane.
Last edited by BadLuckBurt on Sun May 03, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Daggerfall Unity on UESP: https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=T ... fall_Unity
Daggerfall Unity on Nexus Mods: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity
My github repositories with mostly DFU related stuff: https://github.com/BadLuckBurt

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Interkarma
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Re: facepalm

Post by Interkarma »

Whoops, yes I meant to say Digital Monk above. Fixed now.

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King of Worms
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Re: facepalm

Post by King of Worms »

I can hardly add anything else beyond what you said Interkarma, I appreciate it and I apologize, I came from a completely wrong place at that moment and I will use that lesson as a chance to get better and never allow it to happen again. I also did not realize in that moment the weight of my words.

I find it almost improper to say that I retracted the deletion accusations in that thread, Im not surprised it was overlooked in that sh1tstorm, but it happened "Ok so he deleted the posts where he shared his work - my bad - yet I completely understand it." is what I wrote there after I realized thats the case. And I agree it might not even be clear what I ment by that.

I think u guys do great job running the forums and I understand its really a difficult task. Especially when ppl get nuts like me. And we both know its the 2nd time it happened :D I already deleted whole DREAM thread in the past because Hazelnut wanted me to label a image as NSFW, now I can only laugh at that.

I must say I appreciate the way you are able to step back and put these things aside, sry for causing the waves. It wont happen again. I was thinking the situation around me in RL has no impact on me, but thats impossible. Theres a lot of desperation around. But we will go thru, I always remind myself its not a war... and especially in such a times, adding more drama to the pot is the worse thing I could have done.

Take care everybody ;)

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