Other Elder Scrolls

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Narf the Mouse
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Narf the Mouse » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:39 am

Oh yeah. The quests definitely take longer to get get epic in Morrowind, and they start lower, generally. Sure, you have the "kill rats in house" quests in Daggerfall, but the dialogue makes it clear that it's "rich/lazy person" paying you. And you still get quests to kill giants, track down escaped atronaches, retrieve burial wrappings of mummies, kill werewolves...

The Morrowind world definitely feels smaller, and whereas in Daggerfall, you start as "random person on the street", in Morrowind, you're a "random Outsider in hobo clothes just off the boat".

My current favourite list is Daggerfall->Morrowind->Oblivion->Skyrim; never played Arena, although I've thought about it.

Oblivion and Morrowind both are pretty close in that list. Skyrim is a fun action RPG, but despite being an action RPG, its combat feels less dynamic, and doesn't really give the feeling of impact the way even a random goblin could, in Oblivion.

The dragon fights are also kind of "meh", in that they're basically flame-throwing "big ol' bags of hitpoints".

OTOH, you do fight dragons, and although they did take out spellmaking, it fits the post-apocalyptic setting that people only know spells, not how to make them any longer. Plus, Skyrim doesn't have much in the way of magic going on, beyond the Greybeards. And, they added weapon crafting, and cooking. OTOH, I found cooking kinda "meh", and wasn't enthused about searching for piles of salt so I could do something I can do by walking down some stairs and grabbing a few things out of a cupboard.

That's not to say I might not want to cook in a game; but it should not be that hard to make soup. :p

I like the perk tree idea; some of the stars could be better than "click this star for +20% damage", but it's a good idea, and references the lore. Replacing the star signs with glowing pillars does make a neat lightshow, and does let you refocus your character.

Plus, mounted combat. Oblivion added horses ("And why can't I buy something to ride on?" - Me in Morrowind), but "Oh no! A random wolf! I can't take out my bow and shoot it, but must get off my horse, draw my sword, and then hit it." :p ;)
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Jay_H
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Jay_H » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:36 am

I feel like some of the limp effort they put into the Skyrim perks really breaks immersion. This is three years after Fallout 3, and they only come up with things like "Do more damage -> Do even more damage -> Do even MORE damage." Any time I watch a Let's Play of Skyrim, I always make sure it has Requiem installed, since I just can't enjoy it otherwise. The old adage we apply to Bethesda of "release half the game and let the modders create the other half" applies too well :( (I say that while Morrowind is one of my favorites, and I refuse to play Morrowind without mods. I hope not to be using a double standard here.)

One thing that has bothered me from the beginning in Skyrim was the "emergency exits" in each and every single dungeon. I could marginally understand a hole in the roof that lets you drop out of a tomb to the exit just as a handy coincidence, sure, but when every single dungeon has a locked door that leads almost directly to its exit, it's just obvious you're in a world made by a developer, not an organic one; that kind of design suits an impatient player instead of a self-sufficient virtual world.

Also, the inability to kill named NPCs in Skyrim is a big loss for me. I'm not one to insist that the games are "dumbing down" so much as appealing to a very casual base (which is money, that's understandable), but this is one decision that I can't properly justify in spite of arguments I've heard for it. It really just gives this stark feeling of making the whole world a daycare with padded walls so no one gets hurt permanently.

Also, if you haven't read this (the spoiler box at the top), I thought it was a hilarious attempt at capturing some of the opinion on TES progression, even if it is a little harsh on Skyrim.

Taking a step back, by far the greatest hook for me in Daggerfall was the fact that it had a world that was loose enough not to impose itself on you. It had religions and state relationships and fixed NPCs, yes, but you could completely ignore all of that and just create your own ad hoc mythos however you want. That's something Oblivion and Skyrim can tolerate but Morrowind just can't do it. The world is too unique to handle any story but its own, I think. But coming back to Daggerfall, the fact that it created a backstory for your PC was just like a massive push into the open world. The fact that you never even needed to interact with the main quest at all was another huge point in its favor. For most of my characters, once I got out of Privateer's Hold I just ran off to some town and started to make my living. That concept of creating a new life from scratch isn't present to the same extent in other games, besides maybe No Man's Sky and Elite: Dangerous, and maybe Mount & Blade to a limited extent.
Come give your feedback on the ideas in my general thread, and share your DFU characters in the character thread.
Quest-writing tutorial here. Guide for new Daggerfall players here. Daggerfall Mechanics thread here.
Narf the Mouse
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Narf the Mouse » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:07 pm

...Through careful analysis and deep thought, I have determined the nature of Dremora with perfect precision and accuracy:

Dremora are Chuuni.

I will now present evidence to back up my case. I believe two pieces of evidence are sufficient.

1st: Picture of a Dremora:
Image

2nd: Dremora, when "roaring", literally say the word "Roar!"

I rest my case.

:D
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Biboran
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Biboran » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:09 pm

Morrowind 15 years now if I not mistaken :roll:
Narf the Mouse
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Narf the Mouse » Fri May 26, 2017 5:37 am

Oddly, there doesn't seem to be a single Youtube video showing Oblivion running on a 1080 ti.

Or a 1070, which would seem to be easier to search for.

Quite a lot of videos showing Oblivion running at 1080p.

Edit: Now, very much later, I do have a response on one thing.

One problem with Oblivion is, a critical NPC can be killed by a random wolf or bandit, and then your main quest is dead.

I guess in Skyrim they wanted to make sure that wouldn't happen.

OTOH, the way the radiant AI seems to be even dumber...
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Jay_H
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Jay_H » Fri May 26, 2017 7:50 am

I understand the need for immortal storyline NPCs so quests don't get broken by accident. What I would hope for is the ability for the player alone to kill NPCs permanently. That would be an apt solution.

After Daggerfall came out and I started hearing about TES3's production, the idea of being able to fight anyone in the world fascinated me. I thought about taking over a Mages Guild, like the kinds in Daggerfall, after fighting a bunch of archmages and their followers. Then I found out Morrowind NPCs were really, really wimpy :| And now in TES5 you can't even kill NPCs anymore!

Also, there's a hilarious occurrence that keeps showing up in people's Skyrim games. I don't know whether to blame Radiant AI or something else.
Come give your feedback on the ideas in my general thread, and share your DFU characters in the character thread.
Quest-writing tutorial here. Guide for new Daggerfall players here. Daggerfall Mechanics thread here.
Narf the Mouse
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Narf the Mouse » Fri May 26, 2017 4:09 pm

Jay_H wrote:I understand the need for immortal storyline NPCs so quests don't get broken by accident. What I would hope for is the ability for the player alone to kill NPCs permanently. That would be an apt solution.

After Daggerfall came out and I started hearing about TES3's production, the idea of being able to fight anyone in the world fascinated me. I thought about taking over a Mages Guild, like the kinds in Daggerfall, after fighting a bunch of archmages and their followers. Then I found out Morrowind NPCs were really, really wimpy :| And now in TES5 you can't even kill NPCs anymore!

Also, there's a hilarious occurrence that keeps showing up in people's Skyrim games. I don't know whether to blame Radiant AI or something else.

Ok, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Makes sense. :)

Depends, to a certain extent. Wander into the wrong cave at a low level, and you will die. OTOH, Morrowind contained more ways to power up your character than any ES game before or since.

My guess is, the mammoths and giants somehow ended up fighting, a giant hit the mammoths, and did that thing where they *broke physics.

* My guess as to why giant clubs can send you into the stratosphere:

Let's say you have a cube resting on a surface. Gravity pulls cube down; physics sim notes it's in contact.

Now, here you can do two different things: You can push the cube back up to the top of the surface, and you can give it some velocity upward.

Ideally, you push the cube to the top of the surface, and give it a counter velocity exactly equal to gravity. This results in a cube that rests on top of the surface.

Alternately, you give the cube a velocity that both moves it above the surface, and counters gravity.

It's actually not that important for this explanation which one Skyrim does, because...

Now let's say you give the cube a major downward impulse, such as a large, heavy object hitting it while moving meters per second.

Objects in physics sims do not have a realistic mass. It messes up the simulation, because it produces too-large numbers. Using 64-bit floats would resolve that, but all major physics engines were created around a decade (more or less) ago.

Yep. Massive countering impulse upward, and the object goes flying. Those mammoths do not weigh anywhere close to what a mammoth would...
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Narf the Mouse
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Narf the Mouse » Mon May 29, 2017 5:16 am

Anyone know what to do with the bones of the first *dragon you kill? They weigh quite a bit, but it seems rather anticlimatic to just sell them at the Whiterun general store.

"Hey, here's the bones of the first of the legendary dragons killed here in Skyrim."

"I'll give you 500 for the lot."

Seems like there should be a quest or something. But I've run all over much of Whiterun, and nothing. "Hey, Grey-Mane. Wanna look at these dragon bones, a unique, legendary material that could be used to make who knows what kinds of amazing armour and weapons?" "Ask about anything other than my forge or my wares and I think you're an idiot."

Edit: Oh, also, is there any point in carrying different weapons? Like, do blunt weapons do more damage to skeletons, or that sort of thing?

* Skyrim: Special Edition, specifically. Not that it matters. :)
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Narf the Mouse
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby Narf the Mouse » Mon May 29, 2017 5:46 am

...Or I could check Google, which tells me that the thing to do is either make armour and weapons out of them, and sell that, or, if you don't have enough Smithing skill, just sell them to a general store.

Ah, RPG tropes. :lol:

At least Skyrim averts them somewhat, in that you can improve the armour and weapons you already have...But it still reaches a point where it's best to sell it, and start improving a new set of armour and weapons.
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jman0war
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Re: Other Elder Scrolls

Postby jman0war » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:27 am

So i logged into my Steam account and they are pushing "Morrowind Online".
Looks like a remastered MW, which looks like a pretty major graphical improvement to the original.

I bet the people at openmw.org are feeling a bit peeved.
some of my Daggerfall work can be found here: http://www.thehungryartist.com/games.html

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