Daggerfall retexture

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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby King of Worms » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:56 am

No problem, thanks for opinion, I dont take it as offense at all.

My problem is, that I want to upscale the graphics, and I dont want to make compromise with quality on 200kb textures. I dont think I need to compromise the quality on 200 freaking kb textures. Like AT ALL! I dont want to downscale them to 1/2 res and see how the quality gets worse and I save few kilofreakingbytes. Thats not what I came here to do. If thats the case, we are all doomed anyway, we can pack our stuff and forget modding this thing. Thats it.

I ended doing flats because of this and the silence. I dont have a clue if something can and will be done, so my mod works. So why continue? It costs 10s of hours, at the end, its 100s of hours. I will not pour em into something I dont know will work, and something I dont have anything specs wise, just a general "you must fit in 4x4k atlas" than I try to fit things in there, it doesnt work and I hear "oh btw some things are merged into super atlas and NPCs have their own behavior" and I never received specs for NPCs and I dont have clue if this super atlas will be removed. I dont know, why upscaled ingredients, heads, body etc dont show in the inventory, and I dont have a clue if they will. Same with map. etc etc etc

not possible to work like this, no offense to anyone, Im on hold, will give it a time, I know Interkarma is not back yet as well, so hardly anything serious can be done now, and this is just modding, and focus is on finishing the game etc... Im not upset. I understand it.

24 upscaled monsters destroy 24gb RAM PC. Those monster are 2600 files and whole daggerfall has 10 000 files in textures/flats. My 2600 files are 600MB!!!! And they destroy 24gb pc, 4gb vram and god knows how much paging file! Than I downscale it to 50% and it works better but still unusable. 300 MB... so what can I do? Either downscale em to 640*480 or 320*200 or wait. I choose the 2nd option, as Im not here to do 640*480 remake and spend 100s of hours on it. And I still believe this monsters which have fckin 50 animation windows will not crash PCs in 2018 because they saturate 10s of gigs of memory. Is this hard to understand? Because this is my point the whole time. I refuse to solve this problem by fckin up everything I did and downscaling it back to 320*200, I think this is evident nonsense. I dont care what unity converts those few kb pngs to. I really dont.

I also will repeat, that this game crashes on 8gb RAM 4gb VRAM PC when you disable Paging file. It will crash on 2nd load. 1st load in dung, 2nd load to Daggerfall, run for a minute and you will crash. Thats a sign of something bad with memory/cache management. It also regulary saturates my PC, meaning 8gb RAM, 4 GB VRAM and 16 GB PAGING FILE (even if my paging file was set to 12gb..... ANd thats WITHOUT any upscaled flats... so tell me one more time I need to optimize my 200 kb textures man... ;) Because this is UBISOFT type of memory requirements... mass effect andromeda style. But this is free game and early in development, so thats a bottom line.

Id be just happy to have some feedback on stuff I said here and I said everywhere in last month, regarding memory management, specs for NPCs, super atlases and whatever I mentioned. Id like to know if my request for adding the command line to reload textures can be at least CONSIDERED. Because from my 400 hours of work, Id say 50 hours are waiting for a DFU restart to see new textures... and so on and so on
Last edited by King of Worms on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
ifkopifko
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby ifkopifko » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:29 am

Nah man, I did not say you NEED to downscale. We don't even know whether downscaling to 50% would solve anything. All I said was promoting optimisation, that's all. However, I am sure that the flats and textures you did are going to be usable in-game sooner or later, it's just a question of time.
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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby King of Worms » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:30 am

Well I promote optimalization as well :) And with my 200kb textures, I dont have much more room to do so... and I know downscaling monsters to 50% solves it partially, so maybe that 24gb PC can play it for a while, but thats it. Deffo not playable on 8gb ram 4gb VRAM pc... so thats not the way we should take
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oracus0
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby oracus0 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:19 pm

King of Worms, I tried sending a PM, but I don't think it worked...

I really like your re-textures! I have been working on something different with a Daggerfall remake within the Skyrim engine. I was wondering if you would be willing to share your full resolution textures for that project. I haven't done much with the server yet, but I have Discord channel.

https://discord.gg/BxPjPgr

(Anyone is welcome to join... Just don't expect too much for now...)

I released a couple of teaser mods on the Skyrim Nexus

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/84704/?

I've got the worldspace, several dungeons constructed, and everything is off to a good start. A couple people are helping me out, but we haven't developed into a real team yet. I hope to release a public alpha with the Main Quest playable sometime this summer, and then get the server going to generate interest in polishing it up. Not all of your textures would fit with the project, but many would, particularly for the throne rooms and banners, and would be acknowledged and greatly appreciated!

I think what I'm doing is too different from vanilla Daggerfall to help here, but if anything could be used, I'd be glad to help!

All the best,

oracus0
oracus@yahoo.com
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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby King of Worms » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:03 pm

This atomization of a scene... everyone wants his own remake of this huge game nobody was ever able to remake... sorry that I dont share your enthusiasm, but thats my experience. Damn.. Instead of joining the forces in the extremely huge project, we atomize and now here u come with yet another 1st dungeon and a plan to do daggerfall in skyrim engine. I dont know if I shall laught or cry, sorry about being so honest about it. Last thing you need now is my textures man. What is so wrong with Unity... what is so bad about joining here? That your name wont be at the top of the final credits? I dont want to release my textures now. Good luck in your work. I have my work here, for this project. Time will tell what will happen in the future. I will keep an eye on your project as well. Thanks for dropping by. Sorry for not being of much help and about being honest about my opinion towards such projects.

But man, ask those ppl in Skywind / Skyblivion teams on how they progress remaking morrowind, oblivion? Than compare the map size of morowind and oblivion to Daggerfall realm and think again. They do it in big teams for many years... and you want to do 100x bigger project.
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oracus0
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby oracus0 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:20 pm

Not quite... I am only making a map about 2/3 the size of Skyrim; I have been involved with Skywind, but they are doing far more than re-making the quests in the Skyrim engine, and it's taking a long time. I hope they finish. My project is not so ambitious, and no, I don't need my made-up user name to be "first" on a credits list. Daggerfall Unity is an amazing accomplishment, but it still has the mechanics of Daggerfall, which is great for fans of the classic game, but perhaps not as appealing to Skyrim fans. I'm not interested in a world the size of Great Britain... I love the stories and the lore of the Elder Scrolls, and just wanted to make the Daggerfall main quest accessible in the Skyrim engine. And also I find modding Skyrim to be fun to do. It's not a job, it's a hobby. Morroblivion did finish, and it's great, in my opinion, to be able to play Morrowind within the Oblivion engine. Your textures are yours, so do what you want with them.
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Uncanny_Valley
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby Uncanny_Valley » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:27 pm

To clarify how textures and memory works.

The file size of a texture on disk is completely unrelated to how much memory they will use. When you store your textures in png format, they use compression to keep the size down, which works great for storing it on disk (especially since it's a lossless data compression) but it's not well suited for memory and they way your video card needs to access and work with that texture to render it in games.

A 2k image might only be 300 kb memory on disk as a png, but when loaded as a "raw" image into the memory it will take

2048 * 2048 pixels = 4194304 pixels
32 bit per pixel = 4 bytes per pixel
4 * 4194304 = 16777216 b = 16 MB of Memory

They good thing is that there are compressed formats that do work with memory and Unity support several of them. Their compression is not as good as png, but a 2k texture (that would use 16 MB of memory in a raw format) could be compressed down to 2.7 MB - 5.3 MB using DXT1 or DXT5. Unity should compress your textures automatically to these formats.

Hopes this helps. :)

Here are a few links for anyone who want so read more about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_Texture_Compression

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/class-T ... rride.html
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King of Worms
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Re: Daggerfall retexture

Postby King of Worms » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:11 pm

Thanks for the additional info! And nice to see you around .) I think Interkarma disabled compression because he did not like the effects on a vanila textures and there was no need for the compression anyway. Now with high res textures it has changed. We spoke about it in here: viewtopic.php?f=19&p=10017#p10017

Hes aware and will enable compression in future. I cant wait for it and to see how it will all work :) There might be some cache optimalization as well plus other tweaks.

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