Question about climate

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Jammer
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Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

I was travelling near the border between Ilessan Hills and Shalgora when I reached a place where the flats were very different (see picture, you can see the thick "temperate woodland" flats on the left). From what I can tell this is supposed to be the "haunted woodland" set of flats. Interestingly it seems to correspond to the misty regions on the world map (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:DF-map-Il ... beled).png)

This got me looking at CLIMATE.PAK and the other defined climates. This was the best information I could find: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:CLIMATE.PAK. Without the original sky backgrounds to distinguish the "highlands" from the desert, it looks like there are 6 unique combinations of ground/flat textures.

And if this is right then the Woodland Hills (506) and Sub Tropical (501) flats are unused? It *looks* like there are hill climates defined in CLIMATE.PAK (I wasn't able to find a labelled version of the map). I'm guessing the hills are the larger area covering most of Glenpoint and Ilessan Hills, and the foothills north of Wayrest. However according to the wiki page there is only one climate code (230) that uses the temperate woodland flats, so I'm not sure how the same flats are being used for the rest of the temperate area.

When I travel to those regions they look the same as the temperate woodlands from what I can tell, I don't see the 'rock with a hole in it' flat that is supposed to be part of the Woodland Hills. Does DFU use these flats anywhere or are there mods to add them to the appropriate climate areas?
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Jammer
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

So I travelled around, and it looks like Sub-tropical is used for the area of Hammerfell between the ocean and the desert.

But the regions that I think should be 'woodland hills' definitely look like the same flats as 'temperate woodland'.

"Temperate woodland" in southern Wayrest:
20191026184642_1.jpg
20191026184642_1.jpg (334.01 KiB) Viewed 838 times
"Woodland hills" in NE Menevia:
20191026184444_1.jpg
20191026184444_1.jpg (216.87 KiB) Viewed 838 times
The ground texture is different, but the flats look the same.

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Jammer
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

For reference here are the flats from Daggerfall Imaging. Woodland hills shares some flats with temperate woodland and mountains, but temperate woodland and mountains have some flats that are not present in woodland hills.
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temperate-woodland.png
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woodland-hills.png
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mountains.png
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Jammer
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

Here's a labelled climate map. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two desert regions. Without enhanced sky they both have the same 'mountain' sky texture, and seem to have the same flats. The ground looks mostly the same too.
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DF-map-Iliac_Bay_Climate-labelled.png
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King of Worms
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Re: Question about climate

Post by King of Worms »

This is what haunted me for a year. I made a thread using same climate map you have, asking for unput from a more knowledgable folks but nothing happened.

I also think there is a reason why there are clouds on the north on the original map and ehy there is a new biome on the climate map there etc.

Good luck cracking this finally.

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Ferital
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Ferital »

Here are texture archive numbers for flats per climate type:

Rain Forest = 500
Sub Tropical = 501
Swamp = 502
Desert = 503
Temperate Woodland = 504
Temperate Woodland Snow = 505
Woodland Hills = 506
Woodland Hills Snow = 507
Haunted Woodlands = 508
Haunted Woodlands Snow = 509
Mountains = 510
Mountains Snow = 511

Narf the Mouse
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Narf the Mouse »

You can play Daggerfall for decades, yet there's still new stuff to discover.
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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Jammer
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

Wasn't too hard to fix, opened a pull request for it: https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... /pull/1592

Also the default population of Swamp and SubTropical areas was set to Breton, this changes it to Redguard since those places are only found in Hammerfell.

Edit: BTW there a way to take screenshots in-game? I've been relying on Steam Overlay.

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Jammer
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

Here's a screenshot showing mountain flats (left) vs woodland hills (right).

I've noticed the flats that are loaded can sometimes be for the sector you are currently in, but if you save and re-load it will load the actual flats, but if you are on the border it will load those flats for all sectors.
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Jammer
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Re: Question about climate

Post by Jammer »

So I checked running classic Daggerfall and the WoodlandHills textures are *not* used in the hill regions, leading me to think that they do not appear in the game at all. Here's a classic screenshot of the wilderness outside The White Huntsman Hostel, in the hills of north Menevia, showing the temperate flats were used.

Interkarma also pointed out that the populations of Sentinel & Tigonius appear as Breton in classic as well. Are there existing mods that "correct" these quirks of the classic version?
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