Simpler dungeons' layout

[John Doom]

Daggerfall's dungeons are labyrinths. I've looked for a way to make their layout simpler, it seems however this can't be fixed by coding, but rather by editing the dungeon blocks themselves. Since I don't know about modelling, I won't be able to do it myself, so I'm writing here to suggest others how to do it. For more about the technical specifications, read: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Dungeons

DFU's dungeons currently consist of 5 blocks:
- 1 internal block (which includes the entrance);
- 4 border blocks.

The internal block is designed to connect with the border blocks, one for each side.
For each side, it connects with border blocks through 2 doors on different floors and arranged diagonally.

That said, the most basic layout possible would be something like this:

layout.png (14.43 KiB) Viewed 1322 times

However, if every dungeons looked like this it would be boring, so I'd suggest tweaking the original blocks like this:
- hallways and rooms on different floors shouldn't stack on top of each other;
- hallways should connect only to one-way rooms, exits or the block's hub.

Following these rules should make checking the map much easier and layouts less confusing.

Here's an example. This is block "N0000027", used in Castle Masterwing in Daggerfall. I have highlighted rooms in yellow, exits in red and the entrance in green:

src.png (52.9 KiB) Viewed 1322 times

I'm suggesting to do something like this (or better):

N0000027.png (20.84 KiB) Viewed 1322 times

[John Doom]

Main post updated with corrections and an example

[apprihensivsoul]

I know that there is a mod that reduces Daggerfall's dungeon complexity that's been around for a few years, but I know very little about these formats. Is there a possibility to do a weird hybrid where stuff like crypts and stuff are super simple, regular dungeons are smaller but still complex, and dungeons tied to preset quests (like the Scourg Barrow) kept at full size.

[Jay_H]

Is there a possibility to do a weird hybrid where stuff like crypts and stuff are super simple, regular dungeons are smaller but still complex, and dungeons tied to preset quests (like the Scourg Barrow) kept at full size.

Well, that's precisely how the Smaller Dungeons setting works

[apprihensivsoul]

Pfft, you kidding me? //facepalm.

I thought it just resized everything, I should really do better research. Thank you though!

[daggerdude]

I wish dungeons were tiered, so that the simplest (the closest to dull red) were just like that, an entrance, a few rooms around, quest object in one of the cardinal directions, in and out.
but also, more LEVELS as the difficulty/grade of the dungeon progresses.
I don't mind doing a crazy dungeon if i'm stepping into something i KNOW is a crazy dungeon.

the other thing, it would be nice if the community revisited dungeon blocks in a 3d editor and made pools of "simple" or "complex" tiles, for easier or harder dungeons. And really, themed dungeon sets... there are already caves and things in there, the dungeons just need to draw from a theme pool.
would be nice if someone did this. Not sure how possible this is right now.

Anyway, smaller dungeons across the board, while nice, would also drastically reduce loot time and stuff, idk. i've gotten used to farming big dungeons after 20+ years. Would be nice if crypts were a tad bigger and could have simple, low level quests in them.

[Regnier]

hm at some point could dungeons be designed with skills in mind?

meaning climbing and swimming have a purpose etc.

The levels of the dungeon have an elevator in the middle that is broken at the bottom

So the further you go, you can climb out if you want

and there could be places to swim for periods, with air pockets, to route back to the exit.

something like that, climbing and swimming allow you to get around dungeons quicker

[daggerdude]

Would be nice if certain dungeons required certain survival skills to excel in them, but i'd settle for coherent themes... dungeons should be dungeons, crypts should be crypts, caves caves, labs and temples should be labs and temples, ect.

[andromacus]

If I could share my 2 cents on this topic, I think it would be absolutely great to see dungeons layout more coherent with the dungeon type BUT I would also recommend to keep an eye on the enjoyability of the dungeon crawling.

I mean: in my personal experience as a player (and this is of course subjective), I enjoy when a dungeon takes me from 10 to 30 minutes maximum to be solved. I don't like to spend hours of time in dungeons for the secondary quests (but I'm totally fine with huge dungeons for the main quests), but also don't like when I find the quest object in 1 or 2 minutes, maybe because it was generated in the first room I meet after the entrance.

So, just to say: please don't over simplify too much . Still give to the player some reason to spend some time exploring a dungeon

[Hazelnut]

The locators in the Archaeologists Guild mod are intended to prevent the 2hour dungeon slogs, and provide a target icon to be seen once enough of the dungeon has been explored.