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Bow use and movement speed

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:21 am
by Jay_H
Just a mod idea: to make archery more strategic, crouching while aiming could increase to-hit rate and/or damage. The idea of running backwards while firing arrows at hapless enemies just seems to have no proper risk/reward balance ;)

Re: Crouching archery: accuracy and damage improvements

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:28 am
by Narf the Mouse
Jay_H wrote: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:21 am Just a mod idea: to make archery more strategic, crouching while aiming could increase to-hit rate and/or damage. The idea of running backwards while firing arrows at hapless enemies just seems to have no proper risk/reward balance ;)
I'd suggest that for shortbows; not so much longbows. Having a bow in hand, though, could reduce backward speed. Or backward speed could just be reduced.

Re: Crouching archery: accuracy and damage improvements

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:17 am
by jedidia
I get where you're coming from with this, but I generally dislike game mechanics that go completely contrary to reality.
Bows are best shot from a standing position, that's just the way it is. Drawing and losing a bow kneeling requires a position with suboptimal balance, because in a modern-day marksman kneel the knee tends to get in the way (even with a short bow).
Crossbows would be an entirely different matter of course, but they apparently never got invented in Tamriel anyways.

A bonus that kicks in if you stand still for a second or so would therefore be more appropriate, imho.

Re: Crouching archery: accuracy and damage improvements

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:32 pm
by mikeprichard
Although I understand the backwards running cheese issue (for which I'd prefer Narf's solution of simply reducing backward speed), I'd also agree with jedidia here. Obviously Daggerfall isn't meant to be a reality sim, but the notion that crouching is better for bow use would be too far removed from reality for my tastes. As jedidia noted, a bonus for standing still before loosing the arrow would make much more sense. Just my two cents.

Re: Crouching archery: accuracy and damage improvements

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:38 pm
by Jay_H
These sound good! :) Anything that helps balance bow use is good in my opinion.

Re: Bow use and movement speed

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:06 pm
by Hazelnut
Balance bows? In what direction? You think they need nerfs or..? My main playtest char is an archer, and except that it's safer because you can keep your distance I didn't really pick up on an imbalance compared to melee/magic, but that might be because I've not played much other style.

Re: Bow use and movement speed

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:40 pm
by Jay_H
Perhaps it's a classic thing, since I haven't used bows in DFU. In classic it's far too easy to kite enemies around forever. If you have a long hallway you can lure any enemy there and just run backwards to shoot until they die. I expect the same to be true in DFU since enemy movement speed still won't match player's in many cases.

Here's a representation by Grimith: https://youtu.be/N0o2hpBeKFw?list=PLp-w ... oYI&t=3379

Re: Bow use and movement speed

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:56 pm
by Hazelnut
Hmm, wonder if this would belong in the RP realism mod that currently only has clickable beds feature. I had kinda intended Pango to take over the mod if he were interested so lets see. For now I'm working on core again.

Re: Bow use and movement speed

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:05 pm
by pango
I'm suspect not two players will agree on what should be "realistic archery"... It's a trap :D

About difficulty, I'd say DFU is getting harder than DF as enemies AI improves; They have better path finding already, and at the very least they tend not to stay static, waiting to be shot. I killed a fire daedra in some cavern module, and had to run around quite a bit before it eventually got stuck. I suspect it's a matter of time before enemies will never stay stuck that way anymore.
So need for balancing? That's probably too early to tell.