More obvious visual hit detection

[MoloMowChow]

A bit of background that may be relevant:
I'm someone who discovered Daggerfall Unity from Youtube exposure just this past week, and haven't played Classic Daggerall before, I started at Oblivion. But I have an appreciation for older or indie games, especially RPGs.

I quite enjoyed my first experience with Daggerall. I suspect a lot of the QoL changes introduced in Unity helped. There is one thing however that I think is my biggest nitpick with it so far.

Wall-of-text of my first experience:
When I first started the game and swung my melee weapons for the first time, I was at first confused on whether or not I was actually hitting or dealing damage to anything. Not because a health bar didn't pop up or anything, but because at first it seemed the enemies weren't reacting to my attacks whatever. The only thing I could hear was what seemed to be sounds for the swinging of my sword, or metal bouncing off their shield/armor. It didn't help that at the start, enemies seemed to be taking 10 times the swings to die than I would, further adding to my confusion on why I couldn't hit a thing despite using my weapon of choice.
I later figured that those sounds actually probably WERE the sounds of hitting something. Making no sound was what was likely a miss.

Critical hits are the only obvious feedback for hit detection, but I was almost under the impression that those were the only times I hit them!

So I tried magic next. Since my only spell at the beginning was a Shock touch spell, I had even less feedback on whatever I was actually hitting the enemy. Spells make the same sound when cast everytime, and enemies won't change if you hit them with a spell. They won't slow down for even a moment, or look charred from the fireball I flung at it. While through experience you can eventually assume that touch spells work all the time when cast it the enemy's face, it's not as clear with, say, targeted spells or Continuous Damage spells.

I say targeted spells because when I'm shooting through doorways or around furniture, I can never always be sure if I hit the enemy, or the side of the door/table. Additionally, the spells make the same explosion sound/animation no matter what they hit, so it's hard to tell visually too.
I also say continuous target spells because, since there's no visual effect of the enemy suffering continuous damage, whether it's poison or a magic spell, I have to count the time myself in my head. But even then I must be getting the timing wrong because enemies are dropping dead a lot later than I had thought my spell ended.

And finally arrows, oh man arrows. They also only have one sound, the sound of launching, and the sound of hitting. When they hit animals, they make the same sound as if they hit a wall. When they hit a humanoid or something else that usually carry equipment, only then do they make the same hit sound as melee weapons. Also, I seem to notice that a lot of the times when my arrows reach the target, the enemies will hop up and down for a split second. I can't tell if they dodged it by Mario-jumping, or if they slip and slide over the collision box of the arrow.

tl;dr I think it'd be nice to have a visual mod to add more feedback on whether or not you managed to hit enemies with attacks and they took damage.

For example, if you hit them with a spell, a new visual effect or sound will appear on the enemy itself. It they are taking continuous fire damage with from spell, they can look like they're on fire. If a targeted spell hits an enemy and not a wall, it can make a different animation/sound.
Melee weapon swings can create "slashing" or "hitting" animation effects on enemies hit, to show you are actually hitting them, or play a sound more akin to getting hit.
Arrows can stick to enemies hit for a short moment before disappearing in addition to making a more obvious sound effect of hitting something.

I think this way, people going into Daggerfall for the first time through Unity may be less confused.
I'm having fun with this game otherwise though.

[pango]

Hi MoloMowChow,

For melee weapons and arrows, clinging sounds are parries, so they're misses.
When you hit, enemies have recoil animation (well, frames really), thud sound, moan (depending on how hard you hit them) and a spatter of blood appears on hit.
It's just that you'll be missing or countered a lot in the beginning, that's the RPG/RNG mechanics used in Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind, and later replaced by more action-oriented mechanics in Oblivion and Skyrim (from what I've heard, as I never played them).
So maybe what Daggerfall lack, from contemporary perspective, is parry animations. Adding those now would be a huge undertaking though; 5 sprites per monster type to draw matching original style, or rebuild monsters type 3d models from scratch.

Spells however seem to lack hit animations indeed from the short tests I did; That's probably something that needs to be worked on. I even wonder if that will be sufficient for missile spells, as you're often not close to the enemy, and may miss some of the visual/sound clues...

[MoloMowChow]

For melee weapons and arrows, clinging sounds are parries, so they're misses.
When you hit, enemies have recoil animation (well, frames really), thud sound, moan (depending on how hard you hit them) and a spatter of blood appears on hit.
It's just that you'll be missing or countered a lot in the beginning, that's the RPG/RNG mechanics

That makes a lot more sense. I originally thought the animated of enemies reeling backwards were critical hits, but if those are just normal hits, i can understand. Skeletons just seemed to take forever to defeat at the beginning that I just thought I was doing something wrong.

I don't think spell feedback needs anything too visually fancy like in newer installments of Elder Scrolls (my examples might've been too ambitious), just something to let the player know that they aren't flinging all their fireballs at the table infront of them. Even a different sound cue might be enough, since that's what melee already uses for parries and hits.
Certainly, redrawing all frames of enemies isn't exactly what I had i mind. Something more like spawning a new visual effect, similar to what targeted spells already do when they collide with anything in the world.

[pango]

Skeletons just seemed to take forever to defeat at the beginning that I just thought I was doing something wrong.

Yes, skeletal Warriors are level 9, and skeletons only take half damage from all but blunt weapons; So the skeletal warrior is arguably the toughest opponent in Privateer's Hold, specially when you're ill prepared. Outrunning him is always a legit strategy

I don't think spell feedback needs anything too visually fancy like in newer installments of Elder Scrolls (my examples might've been too ambitious), just something to let the player know that they aren't flinging all their fireballs at the table infront of them. Even a different sound cue might be enough, since that's what melee already uses for parries and hits.
Certainly, redrawing all frames of enemies isn't exactly what I had i mind. Something more like spawning a new visual effect, similar to what targeted spells already do when they collide with anything in the world.

Agreed, I'm sure existing recoil frames could also be used to some effect, oriented toward/away from spell impact point. I don't remember how classic Daggerfall does it. (PS for explosive spells like firewall at least, enemies are pushed away by the spell, using recoil frame, enemy back oriented toward impact point. Orientation is kInda silly but that works as a visual clue)
It''s just that spells are still work in progress.

[jayhova]

Since Daggerfall is based on RPG mechanics hits are mathematically determined and are not a property of player skill. I agree it would be nice to see enemies actually dodging and/or parrying your blows. However, this would take 3D animations rendered in real time. I don't see this happening soon as it is mainly aesthetic.