Verbose Combat

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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jayhova
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Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:27 pm

I was thinking about how it is frustrating for new players to swing or fire at an enemy and not see any results. Perhaps it is possible to make a mod that will give the player feedback on the various hits and misses as well as critical strikes just as it does with backstab etc. The mod should be able to take a large array of responses for different hits, misses, dodged blows, parries, blocked blows, armor hits, thick hide, etc. The mod should allow for special text for specific as well as groups of creatures.

The verbosity level should ultimately be selectable for the amount of feedback from every blow called to only critical blows called to off.

For the guy who has no clue how hard would it be to create this?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
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jayhova
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:43 pm

Perhaps this could be expanded to verbose actions where when your luck comes into play you get a message e.g.

"Miraculously the lock before you opens even though you were clueless as to how"

Or perhaps you roll well on a skill roll

"A sudden insight allows you to accomplish this task"
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. PreAlpha 0.8.6

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Jay_H
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by Jay_H » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 pm

Since Daggerfall and Arena are children of D&D, presumably the combat is composed of dice rolls behind the scenes in any case. So the key might be just verbalizing those dice rolls as text on screen.

Giant Spider strikes 1d8 vs PC Head AC 3: (-1) No damage
Giant Spider strikes 1d8 vs PC Head AC 3: (5) 5 HP
PC 1-12 strikes Giant Spider AC 6: (2) 2 HP
PC swings (46 AGI + 48 Long Blade) vs Giant Spider (10% Dodge + 20 AGI): -1 (miss)

Someone else more versed in the combat system could correct it, but I think that's how the system works to begin with. I assume the font will have to be rather small to ensure the thing doesn't flood up while fighting two Werewolves or Thieves.

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King of Worms
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by King of Worms » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:26 pm

Jay, those texts would be more confusing than the missed hits 😂 it has to be something simple.. like "miss" "evade" etc ,))

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Jay_H
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by Jay_H » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:33 pm

Perhaps :) Some players will want transparency on why they keep missing, so what I wrote could be the most verbose output.

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jayhova
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by jayhova » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:29 am

Jay_H wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:33 pm
Perhaps :) Some players will want transparency on why they keep missing, so what I wrote could be the most verbose output.
I'd certainly be okay with dice rolls shown as an option either alone or with descriptions. The baldur's gate and similar games did that. I personally would like to see the occasional flavor text. The nice thing is you could keep expanding the number of text responses over time. "Your opponent is staggered by that last critical hit, one more hit could end it" The nice thing about D&D is when the DM describes what happens when you make a good hit. Verbose messages could give you clues as to how tough your opponent is. "You strike a mighty blow, your opponent seems unfazed" Again, you could spam the player with info for every swing or just a few times in a fight. "Finish him!". "A dry bone snaps as you cleave into your opponent" "A final smash of your weapon takes the undead thing to the ground" "You're quick but it is quicker, you miss" "Chitinous armor turns your blow aside"

I like the idea of giving the player that his skills matter and even showing how luck plays a role
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
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pango
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by pango » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:23 am

I'm not sure it'll work so well during real time combat, but that's worth a try...
And now that there's a message log, you could go read what you missed afterward ;)
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
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MrFlibble
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by MrFlibble » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm

jayhova wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:43 pm
Perhaps this could be expanded to verbose actions where when your luck comes into play you get a message e.g.

"Miraculously the lock before you opens even though you were clueless as to how"

Or perhaps you roll well on a skill roll

"A sudden insight allows you to accomplish this task"
I like this idea a lot! Will add a kind of a NetHack vibe to gameplay :)

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Alyndiar
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by Alyndiar » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:15 pm

Yup, this sounds good. Especially giving a hint about luck and skill use in the description. I would be nice to make multiple phrases to express the same thing and select them randomly, as the same phrase again and again would soon get tiresome.

Let's say R is random value, L is luck, S is skill and T is threshold for success :
  • If R is really high and >= T, perfect action, precise move, amazing strike, etc.
  • If R is really low and < T, fumble, sarcastic comment, generally say this was not even worth the effort.
  • If R is really high but R+L+S < T, point out there is now way for the player to succeed at this time.
  • If R+S < T but R+L >= T, pure dumb luck comment, don't know how this could even happen
  • If R+L < T but R+S >= T, skilled action comment, this is how you do it, practice makes perfect
I'm pretty sure something along these lines would make a good framework for verbose comments. I know there are loads of modificators in the game that could be used to define other conditions too. I really hope someone makes this, it would be great!

BansheeXYZ
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Re: Verbose Combat

Post by BansheeXYZ » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:36 am

pango wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:23 am
I'm not sure it'll work so well during real time combat, but that's worth a try...
And now that there's a message log, you could go read what you missed afterward ;)
In turn-based combat, you can get away with text. In real-time combat, there's too many things happening at once. Stuff is hitting you at the same time you're hitting it, and there can be multiple hits dealt and taken in the span of a single second.

A good real-time solution and one commonly used in modern games is flashing an enemy health bar on mouseover, or when you hit them. Some games put enemy health bars at the top of the screen, and some on the cursor. Since Daggerfall uses the top to output messages, on the cursor would probably work best.

Here's a mockup I made. Hand drawn bar, 60% translucent.
Image

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