Endless wagon prompts on exit

[jayhova]

That gets me thinking of one of those Windows-like prompts:

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I think a checkbox in the advanced settings tab would be better. If someone prefers not to access their wagon at the dungeon exit I see no reason to hold on to this classic behavior that has been just about rendered obsolete.

[Hazelnut]

Submitted a PR for this:

Wagons can now be accessed when player is within 10m of a dungeon exit.
The access wagon prompt can be disabled in settings.
Added messages informing player why the wagon button does nothing in inventory window.

[jayhova]

does the PR take into account that the PC needs to be on the same level as the exit?

[Hazelnut]

Nope, the added complexity was not worth it IMO - same for line of sight. It's very unlikely (but not impossible) that you can get within 10m of exit when not in the same level, and if you do and notice then good for you! If you care about such things by all means do walk to the exit...

[BansheeXYZ]

Thanks for adding, this. However, FYI I was initially a little confused by how this is worded in the options. Usually the behavior that deviates from classic is the name of the option to be enabled, but it's the opposite here. So I was expecting it to say "[ ] Disable wagon access prompt on dungeon exits"

[pango]

As it stands I'm not sure it's a clear ergonomic improvement.

First, but that's only because I played Daggerfall too much already, I often forget that this setting is enabled and find myself outside of the dungeon while trying to reach my wagon. Okay, my fault, but the risk exists.

Second, with that setting on, if I want to put stuff in my wagon I have to come next to the exit, open my inventory, select my wagon, and select REMOVE mode. That's a lot of cumbersome actions, and can lead to other mistakes like put your loot on the floor by the exit, just like in classic...

[BansheeXYZ]

First, but that's only because I played Daggerfall too much already, I often forget that this setting is enabled and find myself outside of the dungeon while trying to reach my wagon. Okay, my fault, but the risk exists.

If you're used to the old way, then yes, the option takes getting used to. That's not really the option's fault, that's trying to break habit that classic built into you. It's also something I tried to solve, but not all of my suggestions were implemented. I would not reset the dungeon state on exit. I would reset it after leaving the exterior block or after a month. The month method would play nicer with future teleport/waypoint mods, but either way ensures that simply leaving the dungeon doesn't reset the dungeon. For memory reasons or something, classic couldn't save the dungeon state after leaving. The whole prompt stuff wreaks of an elaborate workaround from not being able to do that. It would've been far more straightforward to have access be an inside/outside affair.

Second, with that setting on, if I want to put stuff in my wagon I have to come next to the exit, open my inventory, select my wagon, and select REMOVE mode. That's a lot of cumbersome actions, and can lead to other mistakes like put your loot on the floor by the exit, just like in classic...

As far as I can tell, selecting the "wagon" and "remove" buttons is something that has to be done with the prompt enabled as well. However, even if it wasn't, you're still looking at 3 clicks (F6 + click wagon+ click remove) vs 2 (click exit + click yes). Add in all the annoying "no" clicks when you just want to leave, and the non-prompt method wins purely by not interrupting you with a choice that you can clearly make on your own.

[pango]

I would not reset the dungeon state on exit.

There's already a mod that does that, and then some.
So yes, that could be a workaround. But it changes gameplay, it's not unusual to use the fact dungeons reset on exit to loot cemeteries several times.

As far as I can tell, selecting the "wagon" and "remove" buttons is something that has to be done with the prompt enabled as well.

I guess you didn't have Daggerfall Unity at hand then, it's easy to check. In classic the wagon would not be autoselected, and as a consequence many people would drop their loot by the door instead of inside their wagon. That was fixed in Daggerfall Unity. And since you're opening the inventory to handle a "loot pile" of sorts, REMOVE mode is also automatically selected in Daggerfall Unity.

However, even if it wasn't, you're still looking at 3 clicks (F6 + click wagon+ click remove) vs 2 (click exit + click yes). Add in all the annoying "no" clicks when you just want to leave, and the non-prompt method wins purely by not interrupting you with a choice that you can clearly make on your own.

I agree it's less interrupting, but it feels way less ergonomic to me.
If I try to understand why it could feel that way, I'd say:

• it's a simpler path: click a large door, answer a Y/N prompt. The Y/N prompt is not perfect, but it's still simpler that the other path;
• it feels safer. You get the prompt each time you're about to exit (usually), which is a good thing because you're about to trigger an irreversible effect (reset the dungeon)

Also, I rarely have nothing to put in my wagon when exiting a dungeon, so options should be weighted in your clicks math.

In any case, trying to find fixes:

1. Persistent Dungeons mod has already been mentioned as a workaround, but it modifies gameplay
2. when you open the inventory near the dungeon exit, not only allow wagon access, but also autoselect it, with mode set to REMOVE
3. Autosaving before exiting the dungeon, so you can rollback
4. Use a hotspot zone on the dungeon door to access your wagon. Modded textures could put a button or a wagon picture there

Second solution is probably the simplest and looks non disruptive.

[Interkarma]

If you prefer the wagon prompt, can't you just leave it enabled? It doesn't need to be disabled unless you want it to be.

[pango]

Sure. My point is, it can be improved.