Expanded court system

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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Jay_H
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Expanded court system

Post by Jay_H » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:10 am

Daggerfall sort of takes the control from you rather quickly once you're in court. It's a simple system: make either one or two choices and let the game calculate for you.

Imagine if a mod could set up a different template per crime committed. Your Personality, Streetwise, and Etiquette skills could factor in for each decision, challenging an RNG roll to (A) get off free (B) reduce the sentence (C) suffer the ordinary sentence, or (D) increase the sentence.
You, PersonName, are accused of the crime of Burglary. If you plead not guilty and are found guilty, you will face 120 gold pieces in fines and 1 day in prison.
>> Not guilty
On what basis will you plead?
(I wasn't even there) = attempt to get off free (0 int required)
(I had a similar object but it's mine legally) = attempt to get off free (30 int required)
(It's the object but we previously agreed that it was mine) = attempt to get off free (50 int required)
(I stole it because I'm poor and desperate) = attempt to reduce sentence (0 int required)
(I stole it but as a test of security) = attempt to reduce sentence (20 int required)
(I stole it but I was going to return it out of remorse) = attempt to reduce sentence (40 int required)
(I stole it because a guild required me to, which I can't name) = attempt to reduce sentence (60 int required)

A high intelligence skill could make more options available, whereas a low INT skill could leave only the dumbest, and therefore least successful, options available.

Further choices could become available afterward:

>> I wasn't even there

(I woke up this morning and have no recollection) (0 int required)
(The guards hate my race and are accusing me of things) (40 int required)
(I'm guilty of a different crime and this isn't my court case) (80 int required)

>> I'm guilty of a different crime and this isn't my court case
Your skill in Etiquette sways the judge and convinces him of your argument. You are released, much to the chagrin of the town guard.
Or
The judge feels insulted by your attempts to convince him. You are sentenced to pay 240 gold and 2 days in prison.
Or
The judge finds you guilty but is sympathetic. You are given the original sentence meted to you.

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King of Worms
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by King of Worms » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:23 am

would be really good, Id like to see the choices you cant reach because of too low stats greyed out, so u know what is going on, what u need to improve etc. I like systems like this being transparent, so Id like to see that for example this reply needs INT, that reply needs STREETWISE etc

Bigger complexity here would deffo be welcomed, but its not really a heavily used system, so Id make the time investment proportionate to that.

Great idea!

meritamas
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by meritamas » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:03 am

King of Worms wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:23 am
would be really good, Id like to see the choices you cant reach because of too low stats greyed out, so u know what is going on, what u need to improve etc. I like systems like this being transparent, so Id like to see that for example this reply needs INT, that reply needs STREETWISE etc

Bigger complexity here would deffo be welcomed, but its not really a heavily used system, so Id make the time investment proportionate to that.

Great idea!
Agree with the whole post.

An addition: the texts should be worded in a less modern (sometimes more archaic) way. Like 'lawfully' or 'rightfully' would be better instead of 'legally'. More immersion. I could probably help with this part if you think its a good idea.
At this point, I aim to improve DFU by formulating ideas and working out some details of how things could work better.

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Kamer
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by Kamer » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:30 am

I vote to bring the death penalty back as well.

Narf the Mouse
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by Narf the Mouse » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:11 pm

I like basically all of this.

Although, do Daggerfall guards ever go straight to attacking you without trying to arrest, like in later games? I don't remember.
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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Kamer
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by Kamer » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:57 pm

Narf the Mouse wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:11 pm
I like basically all of this.

Although, do Daggerfall guards ever go straight to attacking you without trying to arrest, like in later games? I don't remember.
If you are hated enough, guards will not arrest you but try to kill you instead.

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Johnny4Handsome
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by Johnny4Handsome » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:53 pm

meritamas wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:03 am
An addition: the texts should be worded in a less modern (sometimes more archaic) way. Like 'lawfully' or 'rightfully' would be better instead of 'legally'. More immersion. I could probably help with this part if you think its a good idea.
I agree, the language used is pretty important. The crucial thing about writing dialog for the player, especially for defending your reasons in court, is that you want to avoid implying the tone of the character.

For example, "I wasn't even there", is something that would be said by a person emphatically denying involvement; where as stating, "I wasn't there", is far more neutral in tone.

This is why I would prefer to have the defense choices displayed as topics, rather than actual dialog lines.

Another example:
Instead of, "I wasn't even there", have the option be, "deny involvement". Instead of, "The guards hate my race and are accusing me of things", have the option be something like, "Accuse guards of unjust bias".

By keeping answers broad like this, they can be applied with more accuracy to the actual events that occurred in-game, and fit a wide array of character personalities.

RealTeddyRed
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by RealTeddyRed » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:15 pm

The court system is one my favorite things about Daggerfall, I would love to see it expanded. One thing that could also be interesting is if you are part of the thieves guild and have enough money, maybe you could pay of the guards, jury, or judge to either get a lesser sentence or get off completely free (depending on how much you pay them). Your Streetwise skill and the amount of money you choose to give could impact the success rate, as well as the corruption level of the province. Different provinces could be more or less corrupt (hinted at by dialogue in game?), allowing you to bribe your way out of trouble in certain provinces, but not nearly as easily in others.

Instead of bribing, maybe if your part of the Dark Brotherhood you could threaten the judge or the guards into giving you an innocent verdict. The higher your Strength and your standing in the Dark Brotherhood, the easier it would be to succeed.

Also, the ability to use Illusion magic (if your skill is high enough) to trick them into deeming you innocent would be really cool, and allow for magic users to get out of trouble, instead of just thief/assassin type characters.

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emmathepony
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by emmathepony » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:23 pm

Would be awesome to use illusion magic to disguise yourself to help throw off accusations that you looked like the person who did the crime lol

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Jay_H
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Re: Expanded court system

Post by Jay_H » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:12 pm

emmathepony wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:23 pm
Would be awesome to use illusion magic to disguise yourself to help throw off accusations that you looked like the person who did the crime lol
You appear to have the court fooled, but your poor persuasion skills render your guise unseemly. A local magician is brought in to dispel any enchantments you wear. Once your ruse is revealed, the furious judge sentences you to 1200 gold and 12 days in prison.

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