Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
Zomgmeister
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Zomgmeister » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:48 pm

I thought about components of speed and range, but decided not to use these in that writeup, because what I tried to do is to change as few things as possible to keep it simple, not because it should always stay true to the original by some reason (it's not), but, well, because I thought it would be sort of trivial to do. Seems it is not, at the moment :)

Of course speed and range, if we'll be able to change these, are extremely good things to play with. Fast shortsword or slow but long pike? (Pike, with backpedal, yeah... but that's a different story.)

Ommamar
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Ommamar » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:40 pm

I understand that strategy Zomgmeister, the thought of range and speed modifiers would be the next step. While I have always enjoyed TES as a whole I have never thought Bethesda has been any good at simulating combat. The system that was being developed in Daggerfall never made it any further so I think we have an opportunity to make it better in DFU.

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Rand
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Rand » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:22 am

Hazelnut wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:21 pm
These values are hardcoded because they form the basis of DF weapon damage ranges, and the focus has been on replicating the classic game. Much of the item statistics are in a resource file of item templates but damage is calculated from weapon type and material. I think there's certainly an argument to be made that parts of the item class such as these should be refactored out and made overridable. I'll take a look at that after I'm back from holiday on 22nd... although I might need a reminder. :)
Did this happen, or did you still need a reminder?

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Hazelnut
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Hazelnut » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Rand wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:22 am
Did this happen, or did you still need a reminder?
I needed the reminder, I have no recollection of this thread at all. :)

I'm unlikely to have any significant time for this until next year now, as I'm travelling for work 2 of the next 3 weeks and the end of year is always manic. You never know though.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Rand
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Rand » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:47 pm

Zomgmeister wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:12 am
Cloth
Pros:
- Best Enchantment Power.
- Very low weight.
- Can be worn by anyone.
- Cheap.
Cons:
- Very low protection. I thought to make it zero, but it works better this way. It is very low, even on high-tier materials.
Interesting. Separating it out as "armor" (for mages, really) limits some unwanted min/max synergizing. If it's enchanted clothing as it is now is that just means we'll see plate-equipped warriors with even more armor under their armor, so using armor slots forces a choice.

For balance, you'd maybe want to dampen down enchantability of the clothing that exists now. Lot of code re-writing there, unfortunately.

I would not make classic real-world cloth armor, though. I would make it clothing-like. Robes, coats, etc... and I would give it almost zero protection. I'm unsure about higher-tier materials for cloth. Maybe adding enchantability, but not messing with other values like defense or weight.

Unfortunately, this would require all the (awesome) art asset creators to pitch in and make a whole batch of NEW sprites. Lots of work, there. It may even need some engine re-coding to get stuff to display the way it would be preferable to on the character display (thinking of coats, especially).

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Rand
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Rand » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:21 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:27 pm
Rand wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:22 am
Did this happen, or did you still need a reminder?
I needed the reminder, I have no recollection of this thread at all. :)

I'm unlikely to have any significant time for this until next year now, as I'm travelling for work 2 of the next 3 weeks and the end of year is always manic. You never know though.
So pardon me for what may be an ignorant question, but I'm trying to learn Unity & Daggerfall Unity Implementation, and I can't see what the problem is. Can't a mod override things like the code from ItemBuilder.cs already? A specific example is:

Line 50: static readonly short[] enchantmentPointMultipliersByMaterial = { 3, 4, 7, 5, 6, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 };

I'm pretty sure a .dfmod can be written to override defines (is that the correct term?) like this.

Or is it the damage calculation that's the issue? As a n00b, I admit to having a bit of trouble finding that code and the data it depends on. :oops:

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Hazelnut
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:44 pm

Rand wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:21 pm

So pardon me for what may be an ignorant question, but I'm trying to learn Unity & Daggerfall Unity Implementation, and I can't see what the problem is. Can't a mod override things like the code from ItemBuilder.cs already? A specific example is:

Line 50: static readonly short[] enchantmentPointMultipliersByMaterial = { 3, 4, 7, 5, 6, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12 };

I'm pretty sure a .dfmod can be written to override defines (is that the correct term?) like this.
No, it's a private readonly field. I think you need to go and learn a bit of c# programming fundamentals, because that's pretty basic stuff. In fact I'm quite surprised you asked this here before just googling this yourself.

It might be possible to do this using reflection, but I'm not familiar with C# reflection (only used it in Java) but I assume they're pretty similar, although protection is strange to me coming from Java world - where is package private? (I have a lot to learn about C# myself I suspect, like assemblies etc)

I think that a couple of mod authors are using reflection technique to access parts of DFU but they seem to know what they are doing. I would prefer that we keep adding new mod hooks and exposing things where it makes sense, but I do understand them not wanting to wait or negotiate what is exposed.

These are not where the weapon damage code is anyway. I will get to it, have put in on my todo list which is now an actual list that doesn't rely on my failing memory. :)
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Rand
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Re: Daggerfall Equipment Rebalance

Post by Rand » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:08 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:44 pm
I think you need to go and learn a bit of c# programming fundamentals, because that's pretty basic stuff. In fact I'm quite surprised you asked this here before just googling this yourself.

These are not where the weapon damage code is anyway. I will get to it, have put in on my todo list which is now an actual list that doesn't rely on my failing memory. :)
Yeah, I'm just getting into this level of coding (C, etc...) after years just modding. I missed the fact that readonly was a basic keyword that can have multiple contexts, and not something simpler. I have done some work in fairly complicated scripting, and even some basic work in Python (very basic), but I haven't studied any coding since my Fortran and Pascal and Cobol days back in school, so it's a lot to take in all at once (and I'm going in small bits, as I have time). As you can understand, modern coding has changed quite a bit. I have trouble even knowing what to Google. :?
Basically, I'm using Daggerfall Unity as an excuse to learn the things I've wanted to learn for a few years now. :geek:

I found all the weapon damage code, but what I'd like to do eventually is tied into the material code, as well. Not trying to rush you in any way. Thanks for the info, though.

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