Spell making for Julianos

[azmanian]

If you join the School of Julianos, you can't join the Mage's Guild or the Temple of Kynareth. This locks you out entirely from spellmaking which I think is just not reasonable. The Guild and the School are rivals because each is a magical research institution who presumably want to one up each other (I wouldn't be surprised if there was philosophical differences as well; in fact there should be). If Julianos members could make spells, joining it would be viable and give more people the possibility to make a meaningful choice with their character.

[Ommamar]

D

[Zomgmeister]

But there is no gameplay advantages of choicing the Temple of Julianos instead of Mages Guild.

Perhaps this could be compensated by members of Temple of Julianos to have an access to special spells. These may be static, but have somewhat better spell costs than the ones from the Mages Guild list, or that the ones you can make by yourself. These spells are basically blessings of Julianos, so they could bend the laws of reality a little bit.

Also, these spells should probably be designed for various levels of proficiency, so that an experience Destruction Master could still use these and not feel gimped by his faction choice.

[Hazelnut]

Julianos is the only faction other than mages guild to offer magic item making and sell them too.

[Ommamar]

But there is no gameplay advantages of choicing the Temple of Julianos instead of Mages Guild.

Perhaps this could be compensated by members of Temple of Julianos to have an access to special spells. These may be static, but have somewhat better spell costs than the ones from the Mages Guild list, or that the ones you can make by yourself. These spells are basically blessings of Julianos, so they could bend the laws of reality a little bit.

Also, these spells should probably be designed for various levels of proficiency, so that an experience Destruction Master could still use these and not feel gimped by his faction choice.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

But what advantage do you gain from being in the school of Julianos that you don't have in the Mage's Guild?

I concur with the OP. I can see the lore reasons, but currently I don't see any gameplay reasons to join Julianos. At the Mage's Guild I have everything the School of Julianos can give and more, plus one more source of quests as I can get Mage's Guild quests and temple quests.

[Ommamar]

But what advantage do you gain from being in the school of Julianos that you don't have in the Mage's Guild?

I concur with the OP. I can see the lore reasons, but currently I don't see any gameplay reasons to join Julianos. At the Mage's Guild I have everything the School of Julianos can give and more, plus one more source of quests as I can get Mage's Guild quests and temple quests.

[Zomgmeister]

Mage Guild is global, you can find it in any city, and it provides you with spell making, which is really powerful.

While I agree that the Temple of Julianos should not be a copy of the Mages Guild, because that makes the Temple redundant, from pure gameplay perspective it needs to have some perks of joining, which Mages Guild do not. Otherwise it is the choice between kicking yourself in the groin and playing normally. Roleplaying aspect is too vague, at least because in general Mages Guild seems to be fine organization and most characters have no reason to hate it, joining the inferior organization.

Therefore, again, I suggest to grant a new, expanded and advanced list of spells to the Temple, which are more powerful than the ones you can create/buy from the Mages Guild. These spells should be cheaper in spell points and should have interesting construction, such as:

- Lower Resistance to Flame
- Damage, Flame
- Continuous Damage, Flame

Where the 1st and the 3rd effects are free, no payment in spell points.
Or, another spell:

- Damage, Fire
- Damage, Magic (or Cold, or Shock)

Yeah, this one is impossible to create, but that's the point! And it should have lessened cost again.

The reasoning for that is while lowly and pathetic hubris-filled so-called "mages" from the "guild" think that they managed to find ways of shaping reality, pious followers of the God of Logic are blessed by true knowledge in the form of blessings, which are still used as spells, but are more powerful than the ones created by those "mages".

//

What are the reasons of the grudge between the Mages Guild and the Temple of Julianos anyway?

[Ommamar]

D

[azmanian]

We can only speculate as that didn't seem to be developed very well. Here are some discussion about it and an interesting interview from some one involved in the development of both Arena and Daggerfall:

https://www.imperial-library.info/conte ... s-julianos
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/commen ... _equation/
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/commen ... ear_about/
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/2019 ... pg-series/

I recall a discussion thread from years ago about the conflict between the Temple of Julianos (TOJ) and the mages guild. The Temple had its roots in a Nordic god where the mages guild developed out of the Psijiic Order with a large influence from the Altmer. Though dealings and manipulation a guild with a codified system and hierarchy was developed that had support from the emperor which led many ruling houses in the different provinces to accept the precedence of allowing mage guilds in their controlled lands. While the TOJ was suppressed in what is considered the major provinces of the Illiac bay of Daggerfall, Wayrest and Sentinel. As a result of this development most temples lost the ability to openly sell spells with only Temples of Kynareth being allowed to sell premade spells and allow a member to make spells. The TOJ through its own manipulations did manage to retain the permission for its members to make magical items but was greatly weakened in its competition with the mages guild.

This was all fan created story and speculation so hard to say if Bethesda really payed any attention as the temples lore and why things developed the way they has never really been stated by them that I know of anyway.

Oh my god, I can't believe I forgot about some of the possible connecting lore when considering this.
The god is Jhunal, the Nordic analogue of Julianos. In the original lore, a mage in Skyrim was only respected and even lawful if he attended a School of Jhunal and was sanctioned to practice magic by the priesthood. Anyone who didn't was a hedge mage at best and had no status in Nord society.

So if one were to accept this, there's some real philosophical and even cultural meat to chew on whether or not to join the weaker, more rigorous and controlling SoJ or the powerful, secularized and less stringent MG.