[Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Talk about the mods you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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jayhova
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[Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by jayhova »

I wanted to get some feedback on a pretty simple idea. Items found on bodies should reflect the type of NPC you were fighting. For instance, all archers will have a bow. In fact, if the NPC in question made ranged attacks on you they have a bow. Classes with restrictions should not have items outside of those restrictions. Classes are biased towards weapon types they specialize in. The exception is a special material item or a magic item. Of course, then we get into NPCs with magic items attacking you with that item.

As part of this, items should vary in condition. Maybe the NPC just got his longsword polished. But is that the way to bet? It's possible the fight you just had with the guy broke his shield, so he has a broken shield on him.

Let me know what you think. Dumb idea? Great idea? Who are you again? Whatever.
Last edited by jayhova on Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ralzar
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Re: [Realism Mod] Realistic loot

Post by Ralzar »

Yes please.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if all dropped armor was “broken”, but random condition would be good as well.
Addition to this: Have sell price affected by condition. It’s really weird that you can kill a bunch of people living in a dungeon, haul it back to a city and sell it for the same price as if it was new (which it currently is, but you see my point).

Having drops match enemies would also be great. Personally I would love to see only orcs dropping orcish and no one but deadras dropping deadric. Make you work for the good stuff. But it’s also weird finding a bunch of equipment on an enemy that he can’t use. Or, as you point out, no bow on someone shooting you.

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jayhova
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Re: [Realism Mod] Realistic loot

Post by jayhova »

Ralzar wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:15 pm Yes please.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if all dropped armor was “broken”, but random condition would be good as well.
Addition to this: Have sell price affected by condition. It’s really weird that you can kill a bunch of people living in a dungeon, haul it back to a city and sell it for the same price as if it was new (which it currently is, but you see my point).
Since I am proposing a realism mod I don't think it's realistic to have NPCs going around with all broken stuff. If I am not mistaken sell price is affected by the condition. I'm thinking almost everything would be a least somewhat worn.
Having drops match enemies would also be great. Personally I would love to see only orcs dropping orcish and no one but deadras dropping deadric. Make you work for the good stuff. But it’s also weird finding a bunch of equipment on an enemy that he can’t use. Or, as you point out, no bow on someone shooting you.
"Only" is a strong word. I would say the likelihood should go up sharply. There is no rule that say's you can just buy orcish items from the orcs or kill one and take his stuff like a murder hobo. This is not a game-breaking feature. Plenty of the D&D games like Baulder's Gate etc. did this. The big change will be that Privateers hold will not be such a monster after you kill your first and second bad guy. It occurs to me that the creature type will likely change the condition of the items it is using. Skeletons will have shields and swords but these will likely NOT be in good condition. A fighter, on the other hand, might take good care of his stuff.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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jayhova
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Re: [Realism Mod] Realistic loot

Post by jayhova »

I suppose the next question is, is it doable or does the game need to be changed in order to get realistic loot to work?
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.

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Silence
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Re: [Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by Silence »

I can't help with the code, but for what it is worth, I'm all for having this too.
It just doesn't fit that someone would be carrying around six different types of left pauldron and nothing more.
On the other hand, if they attack you they should have a weapon — a chance of it being damaged or broken makes sense and balances the profit one can make out of this.
Many knights Silence unsat / from the saddle, with her lance / Had they known truth as it was / that the one who made'm fall / possessed naught of being male / but the skill and tools of trade! / Livid witnesses they'd be / of Nurture's triumph over Birth

DaveCastle
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Re: [Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by DaveCastle »

I wouldn't mind an all-around reduced rate of armour drops anyway, like maybe 1 or 2 pieces per (human) enemy at maximum. My reasoning is that even if a piece of armour on the slain foe was perfectly functional after their wearer was hacked at and/or set on fire, you'd still have to be a bit of a sociopath to undress a corpse and put on their blood-drenched gear. Looting battlefields was a frowned-upon practice in the medieval Western world (which the world of Daggerfall is very largely based on), and there was a reason why gravediggers and executioners (and people who handled dead bodies) were social pariahs. Not something I'd see a knight of the Nine Divines doing too often, for example. Picking up a fallen foe's weapon from the ground is a different kettle of fish altogether (but even there, the loot tables seem a bit crazy, could use some fine-tuning, e.g. archers carrying around claymores and daikatanas in lieu of bows).

Perhaps I'd actually tie this to a separate looting skill if implementing that were feasible (or maybe raising Pickpocketing could grant access to more loot on dead bodies, representing the lack of moral compunctions - and making the skill somewhat more useful).

Anyway, reducing the amount of armour dropped by each enemy could also help alleviate the problem of dungeon quests bringing in unreasonable amounts of loot income due to second-hand armour sales.
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
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Ralzar
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Re: [Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by Ralzar »

For every piece of armor looted from a humanoid: -1 rep with regions Knightly Order :D

DaveCastle
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Re: [Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by DaveCastle »

Well let's not get TOO carried away there. :P
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
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Silence
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Re: [Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by Silence »

The idea is interesting, though... what are the ramifications of all the loot you sell?
Shouldn't you be getting steadily an increasing reputation among merchants? «Hey, here comes the spoils guy with another cart to unload!».
And likewise, shouldn't you be getting a bad reputation with factions which might frown on those kind of things? «There goes the gravedigger, selling another cart full of bloodied armour still warm from their owner's corpses».

I'd say the penalisation should apply on selling (that is, when the act is made known) rather than looting, though.
Many knights Silence unsat / from the saddle, with her lance / Had they known truth as it was / that the one who made'm fall / possessed naught of being male / but the skill and tools of trade! / Livid witnesses they'd be / of Nurture's triumph over Birth

DaveCastle
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Re: [Realism Mod Suggestion] Realistic loot

Post by DaveCastle »

Well I think that's going the other extreme. I'd merely drastically reduce the prices you get paid by smiths for weapons and armour. They're just happy to get materials they can melt down and turn into weaponry for the city guard and other useful items (e.g. horseshoes, nails, hoes and suchlike) at a fraction of the cost they pay their regular supplier for their metal bars. I mean, how many dinged-up used swords and breastplates could a city reasonably need?

This would also make the money you make by completing quests more significant and maybe you also wouldn't become a millionaire after getting through your tenth (or so) dungeon. It should still be worthwhile to scrounge up weapons and armour made of precious materials such as mithril (as it's probably rare enough in-universe for a smith to actually want to resell), but I doubt there'd be a huge demand for low-quality rawhide and iron armour pieces. Basically I'd prefer if the game didn't communicate that, say, looting the copper wiring from condemned buildings (c.f. the snuff film serial killer in Dexter) is much more economically viable than actually having a job. I think it would be a much better experience if you were motivated to only loot weapons and especially armour that you actually need.

(And don't even get me started on how worthless gold coins, gems and other precious items seem to be in this game. A hunk of jade is effectively worth 3 flax loincloths or so. Actually, lemme gather my thoughts on that issue and I'll open a new topic on that.)
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
- Mark Twain

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