The contributors hall.

Talk about the mods or features you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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King of Worms
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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by King of Worms » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:06 pm

If possible Id like to tap in at some point and maybe do some decorations etc if you dont mind? I have no idea on how to create a new interior, but I can use the UV editor and add some stuff around when the place is set up.

But if u want to do it all by yourself, Im completely ok with that as well :)

BadLuckBurt
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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by BadLuckBurt » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:11 pm

King of Worms wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:06 pm
If possible Id like to tap in at some point and maybe do some decorations etc if you dont mind? I have no idea on how to create a new interior, but I can use the UV editor and add some stuff around when the place is set up.

But if u want to do it all by yourself, Im completely ok with that as well :)
Not at all, I'd appreciate it :) I thought it was going to be a dungeon but we can treat it like a normal interior (UVs editor can't edit dungeons yet right?).

I can create the interior in Blender and semi-export it to create an RMB.json file that you can load into the editor but it'll take me some time to adjust the Blender scripts, I have a rough proof-of-concept for interiors that I planned on finishing later but this is a good excuse to pick up the pace there :D

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King of Worms
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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by King of Worms » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:44 pm

Sounds like a deal :) I havent realized the UVs editor cant work with dungeons but it might indeed be the case.

Also not sure how texturing is done on a model which comes from blender, but I can support the texture set for floor, ceiling and walls no problem (or any other texture) - Or maybe the materials exported from Unity? With normals, height etc? Not sure its possible.

But just in case its possible to use textures/materials from DREAM, the model should be made in the 512/1024/2048/4096 etc dimensions maybe? Just to have the aspect ratios the same.. Dunno, its completely up to you, I have no idea on how this works :)

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Hazelnut
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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by Hazelnut » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:43 pm

BadLuckBurt wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:11 pm
Not at all, I'd appreciate it :) I thought it was going to be a dungeon but we can treat it like a normal interior (UVs editor can't edit dungeons yet right?).
I really think a dungeon would be better, with a small mound entrance. I do need to check that it will never be a quest target, but this will avoid needing a building exterior to be created. It will also help to give a simple test of actually adding a dungeon from scratch which is something no one has actually done. This is just my view, so not demanding or anything. :)
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by BadLuckBurt » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 am

Hazelnut wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:43 pm
I really think a dungeon would be better, with a small mound entrance. I do need to check that it will never be a quest target, but this will avoid needing a building exterior to be created. It will also help to give a simple test of actually adding a dungeon from scratch which is something no one has actually done. This is just my view, so not demanding or anything. :)
Since I'll be doing a custom mesh for the interior (dungeon or not) anyway, I could just make a mound model too and allow it to function as a normal location maybe? Your suggestion is easiest to do with what I have code / model-wise atm though. I checked the hall mesh that KoW suggested to see if it could be used right away but that would become one long ass hall :lol: so I'll probably play around a bit with shapes and judge everyone's opinion when I have some.

Whatever I end up creating will be vanilla textured so it will also work with texture replacers, I've already tried that stuff out with bridges and it works perfectly so people won't have to worry about seeing pixels all of the sudden :D

I don't mind making it a dungeon but if KoW wants to assist with decoration, the interior has to be set up as a location interior first unless he's brave enough to dive into Blender's madness. I could always re-import it into Blender and export it as a dungeon again.

Maybe it's a good idea to flesh it out a bit more by gathering opinions like:

1. Should there be monsters in it?
2. Should there be loot?
3. Should there be NPCs?
4. If we use paintings, can we specify a custom description + picture? (I have no idea about that one yet)

And whatever else comes to mind, I'm kinda tired atm so brainpower is limited :D I know there's no rush with this but I would like to hammer out the main premise so I can get a clue of what I'm supposed to do

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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by King of Worms » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:33 am

Whatever I end up creating will be vanilla textured so it will also work with texture replacers
Perfect!
I don't mind making it a dungeon but if KoW wants to assist with decoration, the interior has to be set up as a location interior first unless he's brave enough to dive into Blender's madness. I could always re-import it into Blender and export it as a dungeon again.
This way would be really cool, I downloaded Blender and it felt so counter intuitive it just made my head hurt :X I used to do modeling in the 1st 3DStudio in the 90s (before 3DS Max) and that was it... If possible, I will stay out of Blender.

Seems like we can go Blender export as Interior > Unity > Blender export to dungeon... etc. Thats good.
Maybe it's a good idea to flesh it out a bit more by gathering opinions
Exactly, its good to have idea on what to create
What we want is a unique location which feels special but is not lore distracting. Also we want it to be somehow consistent in logic
The more we implement, the harder it will be to finalize tho :) So its about the equilibrium between the ideas and production costs.

1) Id say no monsters... should be a peaceful sanctuary like place

2) loot - I was thinking about it. There might be weapons in front of Interkarmas place (short blade, long blade, mace...) and a set of full armor - everything in one type of material. Plus I can imagine the correct type of lootpiles will add to the mood of the place. Maybe it should look like a offerings etc.

3) NPC - Id say yes, but the special ones. Id like to see guardians at the entrance like (like 176_5 and 176_6) maybe some of the animated guild mages, maybe some spawned daedras, those half naked dancers (so far all mentioned are animated) and few of those naked ladies around :D

4) that would be ideal, not sure if possible. Having a painting and description written either by the person himself, or if he is not around, a description of what he did written by someone who remembers.

About the layout of the structure:
There is no round room in DFU, maybe this one could be actually round? And thinking about it, the walls might have that "stars" texture which is used in the mantella crux. But maybe it would look bad, u never know..

I made some test in photoshop... I think getting the water around the middle part would be problematic? :X But that would look bomb. Ofc the place in the middle is for IK. And there would be smaller shrines all around separated by columns. There should be some stair(s) around to split up the monolithic ground and to give a bit of elevation to the surrounding shrines. There should be something at the top of the structure where the smaller elipse over IK shrine is. Not sure what tho :D In ideal world there would be light and godrays dropping on the interkarmas place ofc :D

Place should be quite big and have a epic feeling to it. I tryed to convey that idea to the proportions somehow by adding the small entrance doors in the front.

If we want 64 places, than the main round structure should be created by 64 polygons.. like Octagon has 8 sides, this would have 64.

Just some ideas...
Untitled-2.jpg
Untitled-2.jpg (143.96 KiB) Viewed 96 times

BadLuckBurt
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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by BadLuckBurt » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:47 am

I am a bit disappointed that you didnt use MS Paint ;) but I like this idea.

The water around the middle isnt a problem if this is the lowest room in the interior and for the roof it might be nice to make a dome shape, use the star texture from Mantellan Crux and a sort of sun or moon texture in the middle where IK will be.

Isnt there an Interkarma sprite? I seem to remember seeing something like that.

After I debug the clothing command tonight and if I still have energy left, I ll try to whip up a quick model of the room so we can see if we are on the same page. The alcoves that dont get used right away can be covered by a solid wall until we have contributors to place there.

Also, if any of the contributors on the list thst are still active, have special wishes they should let us know so we can take them into account.

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Hazelnut
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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by Hazelnut » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:51 pm

BadLuckBurt wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 am
Maybe it's a good idea to flesh it out a bit more by gathering opinions like:

1. Should there be monsters in it?
2. Should there be loot?
3. Should there be NPCs?
4. If we use paintings, can we specify a custom description + picture? (I have no idea about that one yet)
1. no
2. no
3. maybe, but probably no - I like to keep stuff simple and also NPCs are not usually in dungeon blocks so not sure if they could be active i.e. talk to them etc :)
4. I think this depends on whether this is going into a mod or just an easter egg shipped with DFU. That's a call for Interkarma, but if it is in DFU it may be more limited as to what custom stuff is used.

As for dungeon decorations and placing, that's something that hasn't been solved yet. No idea if UV is planning or working on extending his editor beyond buildings now that world data system is extended. I also want to experiment with the decorator stuff that came out of the airships mod and see if it can form the basis of a dev tool for this kind of thing. If we want water then a RDB is the way to go, as I don't think building interiors can have water.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by King of Worms » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:00 pm

Just came here to share the idea about the dome shaped ceiling, too late it seems :)

- if the NPCs are not active (u cant talk to them) in the dungeons, that would be even better Id say.. just use them as a decoration. But I also agree that less is more...

- add the Interkarma sprite.. all I found was this explanation of his name, and that gives me a idea there is not sprite for that :) "The name “Interkarma” is a portmanteau word from two CDs that are sitting on my desk at the time. “The Interzone Mantras” by the Tea Party, and the song “Karmacoma” on “Protection” by Massive Attack."

I just saw some daggerfall workshop artworks around the web.

Would be cool to be able to have custom Images at the champions resting places, but if we cant, we must think of something else. Some clickable statue sprites which give us a text description or something like that.

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Re: The contributors hall.

Post by BadLuckBurt » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:06 am

I may have been mistaken on the Interkarma sprite, maybe it was just the avatar he uses on Twitter / this forum.

Anyways, I have been doing some maths with the help of this tool: https://planetcalc.com/1421/ to get a grasp of the size of the room.

I assumed the following:

64 sides to the room
360/64 = 5.625 degree turn for each wall
Pillar width = 1.28 meters
Resulting wall width = 3.829 meters which is close enough to 3.84 meters for my liking
Room radius = 52.2 meters (slightly bigger than 1 RDB block which is 51.2 meters)
Room diameter = 104.4 meters (slightly bigger than 2x2 RDB blocks which would be 102.4 meters)

The room being slightly bigger than 2x2 RDB blocks isn't a problem. I could scale it down a little to make it fit properly but from my dungeon experiments, I know that DFU doesn't mind when the models in a block aren't in the 0-51.2 range so I'm tempted to leave the room at 104.4 meters.

In total we would have 63 spots to place contributors since we'll need to sacrifice one wall for a doorway. Interkarma's spot will be in the middle ofcourse. I could recalculate using 65 sides but 360 doesn't divide nicely for that number so I prefer to stick to 64.

As you can see from my measurements, I've stuck to multiples of 1.28 where possible so texture stretching should be minimal. The room can be as high as we want it to be, I was thinking 51.2 meters straight up and then it goes into the dome shape which could be another 51.2 meters in height, that would give the room a square dimension but I'll play around with it and test them to get a sense of scale.

I think 3.84 meters should be enough to place a pedestal / painting / NPC or whatever we end up going with :lol: If we make the walls wider, the room itself will naturally get bigger as well so maybe some experimenting is warranted. I do know that 104x104 meters is massive, 1 RMB city block is 102.4 x 102.4 meters to give you guys some reference.

The only thing I'm slightly worried about is that it might be too round for Daggerfall so another option would be to make a 16 sided room, divide the walls twice so we end up with 64 separate edges again. I will make a few variations and update the thread with some screenshots later on so we can decide on what will look good.

If anyone got lost reading this (I know it's abstract stuff), don't worry, I've written it out for myself too to keep track of my thought process :D

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