[Mod request] XP system

Talk about the mods you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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Kzer-Za
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Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:58 pm

[Mod request] XP system

Post by Kzer-Za »

Does anyone else beside me appreciate mods like OblivionXP or Skyrim Experience? For me the way the character progression is implemented in the TES series is actually the worst part of their gameplay, and the aforementioned mods are godsent.

Anyone is up to making such a mod for DFU? The idea is that the character can't raise any skill through using it, he just gets XP for quests and optionally for defeating opponents (though I, personally, would disable it and receive XP for quests only), having accumulated enough XP he levels up, and in the level-up screen he gets not only several Attribute points, like now, but also several Skill points to raise the skills of his choice (and preferably, a fixed, not random, amount of Attribute and Skill points). I suppose, the interface part for it already exists, since you can distribute skill points during character creation.

Of course that would leave the character with no means of raising the miscellaneous skills, but in my book that would be just more of the good thing: makes you really think about which skills you select for primary, major, and minor, and which you leave in miscellaneous.

Although, probably, miscellaneous skills could still be raised through NPC trainers... But that's another topic for discussion: whether to allow training skills through NPCs, or just make NPC trainers give you some XP (a small amount in comparison to quests).

11th_defender
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Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:01 pm

Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by 11th_defender »

I'm not sure if this is that good of an idea. I feel like the og system is better and more unique. Let me explain why:

It makes complete sense. The character should get better at doing something the more he does it. With this new system, you will get a very gamey system of xp that doesn't really work with any role playing.

It allows for character's that don't do quests. If you want to role play as a runaway thief that doesn't work for any guild, you can. With this system, you will be forced to do quests. Since xp will be given by beating quests, it will force you to do a bunch of easy quests to get xp if you want to keep up.

If someone were to make this mod there are a few things to keep in mind:

Easy quests give small xp. Balancing would be completely destroyed, as you would level up differently. This would require a game-wide re-balancing. Taking out trainer's may make people go up in strength very slowly. Make sure there isn't an easy way to level up.

If I were to make a related mod:

I would remove levelling completely. That means level scaling gets removed as well. Attributes would be gained by using a skill related to them(but it would need to be significantly slower). This means that enemies and loot is based on how rare things are rather than your level. Main quests would be scaled somewhat to account for power level(calculated by attributes rather than level). When you have a high reputation within a guild, they will give quests that are harder. Nothing scales with levels anymore, including prices of training and how much money is gained from a quest(that would scale by reputation). Money-sinks like houses and ships would need to have prices dropped.

This would probably be harder to implement than your idea though.

daggerdude
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 2:22 pm

Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by daggerdude »

I thought Arena's system was good. theres things we don't really know, like how combat and dodge and magic chances and lockpicking are calculated other than what's stated, but somehow leveling was factored into success.

I think Arena tied all the checks into the player level and why the spellbook (and many other checks) still have player level factor into success. There's nothing wrong with that, except that daggerfall is about skills, and so sits awkwardly trying to figure itself out.

Either one has to go all skill, or all XP. D&D ties everything to level too.

If daggerfall were going to do XP over, I think that the only way to do it justice would be to keep skills in the game, and have a static amount for skills based on priority: Major and Minor would be set to 50%(representing skilled), and Misc would be set to 25% (representing average), and all other skills set to 5% (representing unskilled).

Every level would give 2 points to major and minor skills, and 1 point to misc skills, and all others would never level unless trained - which then, if trained up to 25% they'd get the misc bonus, 50% they'd get the major bonus, so on so forth.

All the ingame checks except for combat would give XP, and killing an enemy would give a static amount of XP, like d&d. Classes would need a total overhaul to make sure expertise and phobias and such were logical, armor and weapon restrictions, so on so forth.

Could work. The XP mod would have to overwrite the skill advancement system and replace it with the XP system.

11th_defender
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:01 pm

Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by 11th_defender »

It could work, but would it really be better?

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Jay_H
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Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by Jay_H »

Well, if you don't like it, you don't have to install it, right? ;) Back in 1997 I really did wish for some experience-based leveling system (though mine would have included killing enemies, but that's less relevant). Surely there'd be some demand for this mod if it came out.

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Magicono43
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Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by Magicono43 »

I quite enjoyed playing Oblivion with the XP based system, it worked surprisingly well and made me not feel like I had to constantly grind skills while just traveling, spamming spells, hopping around constantly, etc. However, it did make the desire to do things that gained XP more of an impulse as one would expect, but at least in Oblivion's case, it worked fairly well I think.

So yeah I think a mod like this would be a good idea.

However, currently as far as I have seen/tried myself, making changing to the skill gain system/parameters to what merits an increase in level are not very open atm to modding, at least not very easily. I'm sure the backend will get to that point, but right now it's a bit unsupported compared to some of the other systems in terms of modding. Then again, I am by no means a code wizard, so maybe somebody could do some weird reflection stuff and prove me wrong, I hope they do, because an XP based option would be a cool alternative way to play the game for sure, as I experience with the Oblivion mod personally.

11th_defender
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:01 pm

Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by 11th_defender »

I don't have a problem with you guys wanting it. Just sharing my two cents.

dondondon
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Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:51 pm

Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by dondondon »

I would very much enjoy an XP mod. I used both major mods for oblivion and skyrim and the games became much more enjoyable.

I don´t agree with the elder scrolls og systems are better for role playing. RP comes from adjusting to the limitations/strengths of your character imo, not how you increase those skills. And for me I´d rather increase those skills via quest rewards rather than constantly jumping everywhere I go to increase acrobatics (yes, I could just not jump everywhere but if that´s how I earn "xp" in elder scrolls, then I will do it). Both systems are gamey but I much prefer just using a very abstract system like XP from quests.

I think i almost would even prefer no system at all to the one elder scrolls uses, and just basically use my real life gaming skills like a fps, and just collect better armours and weapons.

baturinsky
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 am

Re: [Mod request] XP system

Post by baturinsky »

I like the Potential system in Elona. Skills are trained by use there, like in TES, but skills also have a parameter named Potential.
Potential is the multiplier for the particular skill gain, which drops as you gain more points in that.

There are several ways of regaining Potential, such as visiting Trainers (which take pay only in Silver Coins which are gained by doing quests) or sleeping.

Not sure if DF needs something like Silver Coins, though, as it's too gamey. Maybe only in virtual form, with guild trainers giving one free training session per quest done for the guild.

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