Dungeon workarounds

Talk about the mods you'd like to see in Daggerfall Unity. Give mod creators some ideas!
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Jay_H
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Dungeon workarounds

Post by Jay_H »

In classic Daggerfall, some situations are hopeless for characters who don't cast spells, besides getting lucky enough to find a magical item with a corresponding effect. I wanted to list several of them and see if some brainstorming couldn't create some meaningful solutions that could be modded in, like Hazelnut's locator item.
  • Dungeon blocks N0000003, N0000004, and N0000005 (hollow pyramid) require either the Open or Levitation spell, as the doors leading to the solution are magically locked. Players cannot climb out due to the hollow interior.
  • Dungeon blocks that place a quest spawn under a trapdoor can softlock the player if a Teleport effect sends him/her into the trapdoor. (N0000037)
  • Dungeon blocks that place a quest spawn inside a cage can softlock the player if a Teleport effect sends him/her into the cage. (N0000032)
  • Dungeon blocks containing a shaft not connected to a wall can softlock the player, since climbing out is not an option. (N0000043)

Al-Khwarizmi
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Re: Dungeon workarounds

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

One solution would be making magical items that can be used to escape those situations always available in some kind of shop, temple, order or guild. Basically an item of recall and an item of undeniable access (Open) would be enough. Maybe those specific items could be made non-repairable (if magic repair is included in the game) or with limited uses, to make them a consumable for non-magic users.

Another solution: maybe there's one guild that offers you an item that you can use to summon help at any time you're stuck. You would get a message saying that some mercenaries (or guards, magic creatures or whatever, depending on guild flavor) find you and manage to take you out of the dungeon, and you would appear outside. Of course, this should have a significant cost.

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Mosin Nagant
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Re: Dungeon workarounds

Post by Mosin Nagant »

I think the best solution is ultimately to wait until we have the means to modify these blocks, or rewrite the dungeon generator to have better checks against this sort of thing.

A less perfect solution would be to allow the player to purchase a variety of helpful items like rope and grappling hooks that they could use to climb out. Maybe these items could even spawn in the loot piles in those blocks. If new items aren't out of the question, there are certainly several that could be implemented that would allow the player to take some precautions, like:
  • Set up a rope ladder before going down | Ladder weight = 0.5(Length in Meters) kilos
  • Throw a grappling hook onto a ledge above | Max throw distance = 4 + ((Strength - Grappling hook weight) / 5) meters, or something like that.
  • Use a cellphone to call 911 :D
Could you post a couple screenshots of some these blocks? I'm not exactly sure which ones they are.
Previously known as LordMordecai on DXL forums

Seterwind
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Re: Dungeon workarounds

Post by Seterwind »

Fixing these issues would be a great thing to do, however I really like the rope idea. Maybe certain guilds; like fighter or archaeologist, should give you a "rope of returning". Recalls you back to the guild(or outside the dungeon) should you find yourself stuck in a dungeon.

Would be a little out of the typical TES, but somehow I feel like it fits for a temp solution..

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Jay_H
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Re: Dungeon workarounds

Post by Jay_H »

Mosin Nagant wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:28 am I think the best solution is ultimately to wait until we have the means to modify these blocks, or rewrite the dungeon generator to have better checks against this sort of thing.
Block modification is one of the things I most look forward to in the mid- to far future :D Here's hoping it'll get implemented.
Could you post a couple screenshots of some these blocks? I'm not exactly sure which ones they are.
Certainly. This is how they look in Daggerfall Modeling:

Hollow pyramid:
Image Image

Trapdoor:
Image

Cage:
Image

Shaft: (requires that the block not connect to other blocks from this room, somewhat rare but it happened to me.)
Image

Some of these might not be the precise block, but they're illustrative of the problem.

ifkopifko
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Re: Dungeon workarounds

Post by ifkopifko »

Well, I usually played a non-magic characters (which might be the reason I never got to finish this game), so I am very familiar with the situations described here. :-D

However, I took it as part of the game. Not having any spells I had to move carefully within the dungeon, so that I would not get trapped there. I kinda liked the atmospehre of it. :-) Of course, sometimes I took the risk and jumped into a shaft and hoped to find a way back later. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't (or so I remember).
Afterall, your particular character does not have to be able to cope with every single quest, so you either bear it as a man, or load a save before receiving the "impossible" quest.

Personaly, I do not think there is any need for workarounds and helping hands...

P.S.: More often I got trapped inside a dungeon because even thoug a way out existed, some vampire spawned in the right place when I rested inside. This also should not be fixed "in the system", the game is supposed to be difficult and scary afterall. :-) Or so I think.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Dungeon workarounds

Post by mikeprichard »

I definitely see ifkopifko's point. That said, I think especially for newer players (and even the few veteran players who don't obsessively and frequently save their games into separate slots), this kind of situation is more frustrating than challenging. Some lore-friendly partial workarounds like the suggested potions/items with magic effects for non-mages in particular would be welcome.

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