Combat Overhaul Alpha

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l3lessed
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by l3lessed » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Awesome work. :D

Okay, this is getting us somewhere now. It looks pretty great, other than the thickness of the blades; I think the metal blade could be thinner. As for how to render the animations, I'll let you and others decide what is the best/optimal approach. I know very little about modern 3d modeling and rendering.

Once you get one model and animation done, could you shoot it my way, so I can start digging into how the script files are going to need to be coded for 3d animations. I'll start the engine C# research now.

At the end of the day, I plan on still releasing a base DFU branch of this mod that runs with the default DF sprites for traditionalist. However, I want a 3d model version for people like me, who want to update the games look and feel.
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Hazelnut
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by Hazelnut » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:08 pm

l3lessed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm
At the end of the day, I plan on still releasing a base DFU branch of this mod that runs with the default DF sprites for traditionalist. However, I want a 3d model version for people like me, who want to update the games look and feel.
Or you could add a mod setting to switch between maybe?

l3lessed
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by l3lessed » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:00 pm

Or you could add a mod setting to switch between maybe?
Even a better idea for sure. Off top of my head, I imagine this would require two separate fps and weapon manager script file mods that could be switched between to enable one or the other type.
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daggerdude
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by daggerdude » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:59 am

Here are some renders of a vertical chop animation with a more refined sword with basic material coloration. there are 24 renders here with interpolation/keyframes. included are individual renders and a .mp4 video of them in action so you can see how it's rendered.

this didn't take very long to do, just something i thought i'd give you to play with. between here and the game we must figure out...

1.) file format interpretation
2.) render translation to game (a way to palette swap)
3.) the general consensus on the animation themselves; some may want more traditional, others modern
4.) additional animation sequences, such as weapon bobbing, unsheathing, blocking, ect.
5.) model critique. models should be generally agreed upon designs so that traditionalists and modernists are happy.

so... this may be a long road. I'll do what I can but keep in mind...

there are 11 materials, Iron, steel, silver, elven, dwarven, mithril, adamantium, orcish, ebony, and daedric.
if we DONT figure out a way to palette swap these, this means seperate renders.

Based on what I can tell, a minimum of 8 frames per attack would be required to modernize weapons. that's 32 per weapon (mirroring)
There's the dagger, shortsword, other swords, axe 1 and 2, mace 1 and 2, the flail, warhammer, and the staff to do. thats 10 weapons to render, not including hands... oh boy that will be fun.

My point is, it would be nice if we can try to complement each other and work smarter, not harder, if at all possible.

The alternative is to start a free for all weapons project and try to recruit some volunteers to take a weapon and do all the animations and renders for them.

IDEALLY, i'd like to render every single weapon in the game with all 6 attack directions with light medium or heavily armored hands (based on armor class hands + weapon arm) with blocking and unsheathing/sheathing, and such, but to do that all, and every material....

Either we got to get creative or we need to economize.

What would be REALLY nice is if daggerfall supported viewport models for weapons, like battlespire.
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l3lessed
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by l3lessed » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:41 pm

thanks for all the info.

yes, I would like to work with you on developing and implementing them. I agree, be better to work together, so we are not replicating things or making it harder on us.

Im out of town at a concert, but when I get back, I'll start looking into how unity handles 3d animations and models in the area.

What format are you developing them in? The type will probably affect coding and importing the models and animations.

I also need to look into seeing if untiy can do a better hit detect method for 3d models than the current raycast system I have developed up to this point.

Maybe attaching a physics object of some type to detect collisions; however, most engines bug out with this method as tje animation moves to fast to properly detect and execute the correct hit collision code. at least older engines I worked on have always had this problem, and seeing discussions of the same issue on unity forums. Ill do more looking, but raycasting/spherecasting seems the best option for now. just will create issues in the long run if enemy third person attack animations dont align with the raycast, whenever we get to 3d enemies with attack animations.

We had this issue in HL2 engine when we made chivalry before it was ported to a stand alone game. third and first person animations couldn't get close enough to not cause animation hit detection misalignments and thus weird visuals at times. Some thing to consider now before we get to far down the road.
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daggerdude
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by daggerdude » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:04 pm

So basically i have the model compiled in blender's native file, and then I have the renders as jpegs.
I can export them in a number of extentions if needed though. I also can provide you with the sword model file if you wanted to toy around with it in blender.

also, My plan is to try to faithfully recreate the weapons, but give believable animations; arms should be seen in every shot for instance. So i wanted to make some daggerfall arms/legs and do that. I also had an idea to try to make different armor levels for arms.

Part of this is going to be model work; the other is gonna be image manipulation. We need to find the right size and format and whatever to make the renders play seamlessly and nicely, and then i can add more detail in a photoeditor. So things like arms, armor, ect. can be added. I have ideas, but it will all depend on if we can get a functional material translator.

Basically we could render the weapons with the same animations (once I make them) and use the same animations with the arms; one handed and two handed and polearm weapons.

Blender is capable of full physics rendering and texturing and animation, with IK bone systems...

in other words, I can basically do anything with this program given time and patience.

daggerdude
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by daggerdude » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:16 pm

There are some HD sprites floating around already BTW if you wanted some vanilla style HD sprites.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1612&hilit=hd+weapon

my problem is that daggerfall graphics are not just dated, the animations and the design is dated.
We could make daggerfall weapons SOOOOO much more beautiful. and descriptive. We could make a model for every IN GAME item, and even create NEW ones.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2856&p=32950#p32950

i have ideas on how to rebalance weapon damage figures based on morrowind; coupled with parrying animations, blocking, ect. these numbers i think would work BEAUTIFULLY!

I also have forever wanted to add one handed flails, warhammers, rapiers, falchions, and spears into the game. If we were able to somehow change damage based on attack type (which as i understand is QUITE doable) and add weapons into the game, we could totally overhaul daggerfall combat for REAL.

Armor needs a redesign too.

If i got good enough with blender and had the time, i would LOVE to redo all the character models and character dolls in 3d and have 3d renders for everything.

There are so many ways to make daggerfall what it COULD be, but...

daggerdude
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by daggerdude » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:16 pm

first things first, making combat feel and look better while keeping the formula simple is a good place to start.
there's a legion of people that would love to help, im sure.

l3lessed
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by l3lessed » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:50 am

I don't mean to be rude, but I know and discussed all of this already. It is laid out in my two threads and in numerous separate posts, this one included. I already mentioned I would be getting in the hd sprites when I had the time. But they don't affect my animation work, so it isn't a priority for my build since I'm mostly focusing on coding and modding right now.

You're missing the point. It isn't a question of if, it is a question of time and resources. I thank you for working on 3d models, and I will happily work on getting them into DFunity, if you can provide a finished version. Again, I need to know the model and animation format your going to work in to begin understanding how and if unity engine can use them and how to import them.

However, this isn't as simple as merely replacing some assets. We're talking about complete engine redesign. Honestly, the models and animations are just a very small portion of what needs to be done to get this into the game, as I have stated before. You have to code timings, raycasts, hit detection triggers, and numerous other things, not to mention 3d animation blending to ensure movements between animation don't glitch out.

As an example, to get a parry to work properly, you have to play the attack animation, trigger the raycasts shootouts for hit detection, ensure they align properly with the 3d animation, on proper hit detection stop the attack animation, and start a parry animation, and if you don't have proper animation blending, the transition between swing and hit recoil will look glitched out.

I've also covered the differing formulas for hit calculation chances, damage, armor calculations, shield calculations, and numerous other things. Also the type of attack you use in daggerfall actually affects damage and hit chance. But, if you are interested in weapon health, just open up the itemhelper script and go to the weapons. The weapons health is listed right there in the script file.

Code For Weapon Attack Type Modifiers

Code: Select all

                if (onscreenWeapon != null)
                {
                    // The Daggerfall manual groups diagonal slashes to the left and right as if they are the same, but they are different.
                    // Classic does not apply swing modifiers to unarmed attacks.
                    if (onscreenWeapon.WeaponState == WeaponStates.StrikeUp)
                    {
                        damageModifiers += -4;
                        chanceToHitMod += 10;
                    }
                    if (onscreenWeapon.WeaponState == WeaponStates.StrikeDownRight)
                    {
                        damageModifiers += -2;
                        chanceToHitMod += 5;
                    }
                    if (onscreenWeapon.WeaponState == WeaponStates.StrikeDownLeft)
                    {
                        damageModifiers += 2;
                        chanceToHitMod += -5;
                    }
                    if (onscreenWeapon.WeaponState == WeaponStates.StrikeDown)
                    {
                        damageModifiers += 4;
                        chanceToHitMod += -10;
                    }
                }
I'm happy any help that individuals want to provide, but rebuilding engine scripts from scratch to handle things the game never was meant to is not as easy as just getting a 3d model or an idea and ramming it in. One change can easily cause a cascading code failure that destroys everything.

I'm all with you, this games combat needs updated badly, as it feels way outdated. I can tell you, my recoil and multi-raycast hit detection system already helps a lot. Weapons actual feel like they are made out of physical matter and have weight to them now. I also put in direction based attacks, very similar to marrowwind.

This is going to take time though to get in and ensure it doesn't cause any bugs anywhere in the game as it is developed.
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Hazelnut
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Re: Combat Overhaul Alpha

Post by Hazelnut » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:58 pm

l3lessed wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm
At the end of the day, I plan on still releasing a base DFU branch of this mod that runs with the default DF sprites for traditionalist. However, I want a 3d model version for people like me, who want to update the games look and feel.
So, if I understand you correctly here, you're planning to release custom builds of DFU for this mod rather than a dfmod file that can be managed by mod system? I can understand why, but wondering how this could be avoided. I'm planning to make factories for UI and manager classes, which would mean you would be able to register a custom WeaponManager script from a mod. Would this be enough? I assume your code is not in a public github repo so I could look myself?

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