[WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

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DunnyOfPenwick
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[WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by DunnyOfPenwick »

I recently started writing a Divine Aid mod because I wanted to address the lack of summoning in the game, and I didn't like the way later Elder Scrolls games implemented summoning.

The more recent games allowed Conjuration summoning spells, but I don't like the idea of snapping your fingers and summoning creatures that throw their lives away on the character's behalf. I also don't like the predictability and level of control the spells offer. (Note: I may write a Create Atronach spell mod after completing this mod)

I am nearing completion of the Divine Aid mod, with most of the basic mechanics already implemented. At this point I would like to invite any additional suggestions/comments before polishing it up and releasing it.

Here is the rundown of how the mod currently functions:

-If the character has a reputation higher than zero with any god at character creation, they will be granted a divine Focus item to use for prayer/summoning; this is usually achieved by answering the 'What god, if any, do you worship?' question with something other than 'None'. The item itself uses the standard ReligousItem/Talisman graphic, except that it is considered to be a summoned item to prevent the player from accidentally losing it. The reported item condition is directly correlated with the character's reputation with their chosen deity(e.g. item condition 'New' implies high reputation with the chosen divine). The divine reputation is used to determine success when praying for a boon.

-When the player Uses the Focus item, a boon *may* be granted depending on divine reputation and current conditions. Most boons (like summoning) only occur when the character is in combat.

-If a summoning is granted, the summon type is particular to the character's god, the character's language skills, and the location of the summoning (ground units, air units, underwater units). The possible summon types are correlated with the language skills offered at the Divine's temple. If the character doesn't have any appropriate language skill, they will be limited to animal (non-speaking) summons only. The reason language skill is needed is because the summons is not guaranteed to be allied with the player; the god is less likely to grant the summon unless the character has some measure of appropriate language skill. At higher levels, animal summons are no longer provided, so the character must have language skills to continue receiving summons. Furthermore, all gods can potentially provide an appropriate human summon, if the character is able to get their etiquette/streetwise skills high enough.

- More than one summon might be granted if reputation is high enough and/or there are multiple enemies.

-There is a time limit to the summons, dependent on divine reputation, after which they are unsummoned and returned to whence they came. If a summoned creature is reduced to zero health, they will be whisked away to prevent them from dying, and presumably healed.

-The character can only pray for aid so often, typically every few hours dependent on divine reputation. If a significant boon is granted, the character will likely lose a bit of reputation with their god. Divine Aid is meant to be an occasional tool for the player to use, it is not a crutch.

-Other general boons that all gods can grant include healing, fatigue reduction, curing paralysis, and breath (when swimming).

-There are other deity-specific boons that might be granted in lieu of a summons, currently these are:
Akatosh: Increase player speed, decrease enemy speed in area
Arkay: pacify undead (dependent on willpower)
Dibella: charm human-like enemies (dependent on luck)
Julianos: restore magicka
Kynareth: levitate indoors, fly (fast levitate) outdoors. Currently the only non-combat boon available.
Mara: pacify humans (dependent on personality)
Stendarr: pacify humanoids (humans, orcs, etc.) (dependent on willpower)
Zenithar: likely to find extra gold on enemies
...of course I'm open to other ideas.

-Current list of per-deity summons:
Akatosh: Dragonling, Fire Daedra, Daedroth, Knight, Monk
Arkay: Frost Daedra, Daedroth, Sorcerer, Assassin
(Note: I toyed with the idea of giving Arkay undead summons, but that smacks of necromancy and Arkay is supposed to dislike that)
Dibella: Nymph, Lamia, Daedra Seducer, Orc Sergeant, Orc Shaman, Orc Warlord, Spellsword, Bard, Burglar, Acrobat
Julianos: Imp, Dreugh, Mage, Battlemage, Frost Daedra, Fire Daedra
Kynareth: Dragonling, Harpy, Fire Daedra, Daedra Seducer, Archer, Healer, Acrobat
Mara: Nymph, Lamia, Harpy, Fire Daedra, Daedra Seducer, Spellsword, Bard, Ranger, Burglar, Thief
Stendarr: Healer, Frost Daedra, Daedroth
(Note: Stendarr is somewhat less combat-oriented)
Zenithar: Centaur, Fire Daedra, Daedroth, Giant, Gargoyle, Harpy, Spriggan, Warrior, Barbarian, Rogue, Nightblade

-Other notes:
-I'm looking into having the player/character occasionally summoned by another, a little tit-for-tat so to speak.

Jarlyjarljarl
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:37 am

Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by Jarlyjarljarl »

DunnyOfPenwick wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 1:46 pm I recently started writing a Divine Aid mod because I wanted to address the lack of summoning in the game, and I didn't like the way later Elder Scrolls games implemented summoning.

The more recent games allowed Conjuration summoning spells, but I don't like the idea of snapping your fingers and summoning creatures that throw their lives away on the character's behalf. I also don't like the predictability and level of control the spells offer. (Note: I may write a Create Atronach spell mod after completing this mod)

I am nearing completion of the Divine Aid mod, with most of the basic mechanics already implemented. At this point I would like to invite any additional suggestions/comments before polishing it up and releasing it.

Here is the rundown of how the mod currently functions:

-If the character has a reputation higher than zero with any god at character creation, they will be granted a divine Focus item to use for prayer/summoning; this is usually achieved by answering the 'What god, if any, do you worship?' question with something other than 'None'. The item itself uses the standard ReligousItem/Talisman graphic, except that it is considered to be a summoned item to prevent the player from accidentally losing it. The reported item condition is directly correlated with the character's reputation with their chosen deity(e.g. item condition 'New' implies high reputation with the chosen divine). The divine reputation is used to determine success when praying for a boon.

-When the player Uses the Focus item, a boon *may* be granted depending on divine reputation and current conditions. Most boons (like summoning) only occur when the character is in combat.

-If a summoning is granted, the summon type is particular to the character's god, the character's language skills, and the location of the summoning (ground units, air units, underwater units). The possible summon types are correlated with the language skills offered at the Divine's temple. If the character doesn't have any appropriate language skill, they will be limited to animal (non-speaking) summons only. The reason language skill is needed is because the summons is not guaranteed to be allied with the player; the god is less likely to grant the summon unless the character has some measure of appropriate language skill. At higher levels, animal summons are no longer provided, so the character must have language skills to continue receiving summons. Furthermore, all gods can potentially provide an appropriate human summon, if the character is able to get their etiquette/streetwise skills high enough.

- More than one summon might be granted if reputation is high enough and/or there are multiple enemies.

-There is a time limit to the summons, dependent on divine reputation, after which they are unsummoned and returned to whence they came. If a summoned creature is reduced to zero health, they will be whisked away to prevent them from dying, and presumably healed.

-The character can only pray for aid so often, typically every few hours dependent on divine reputation. If a significant boon is granted, the character will likely lose a bit of reputation with their god. Divine Aid is meant to be an occasional tool for the player to use, it is not a crutch.

-Other general boons that all gods can grant include healing, fatigue reduction, curing paralysis, and breath (when swimming).

-There are other deity-specific boons that might be granted in lieu of a summons, currently these are:
Akatosh: Increase player speed, decrease enemy speed in area
Arkay: pacify undead (dependent on willpower)
Dibella: charm human-like enemies (dependent on luck)
Julianos: restore magicka
Kynareth: levitate indoors, fly (fast levitate) outdoors. Currently the only non-combat boon available.
Mara: pacify humans (dependent on personality)
Stendarr: pacify humanoids (humans, orcs, etc.) (dependent on willpower)
Zenithar: likely to find extra gold on enemies
...of course I'm open to other ideas.

-Current list of per-deity summons:
Akatosh: Dragonling, Fire Daedra, Daedroth, Knight, Monk
Arkay: Frost Daedra, Daedroth, Sorcerer, Assassin
(Note: I toyed with the idea of giving Arkay undead summons, but that smacks of necromancy and Arkay is supposed to dislike that)
Dibella: Nymph, Lamia, Daedra Seducer, Orc Sergeant, Orc Shaman, Orc Warlord, Spellsword, Bard, Burglar, Acrobat
Julianos: Imp, Dreugh, Mage, Battlemage, Frost Daedra, Fire Daedra
Kynareth: Dragonling, Harpy, Fire Daedra, Daedra Seducer, Archer, Healer, Acrobat
Mara: Nymph, Lamia, Harpy, Fire Daedra, Daedra Seducer, Spellsword, Bard, Ranger, Burglar, Thief
Stendarr: Healer, Frost Daedra, Daedroth
(Note: Stendarr is somewhat less combat-oriented)
Zenithar: Centaur, Fire Daedra, Daedroth, Giant, Gargoyle, Harpy, Spriggan, Warrior, Barbarian, Rogue, Nightblade

-Other notes:
-I'm looking into having the player/character occasionally summoned by another, a little tit-for-tat so to speak.
I like the idea buy it's not in step with the lore.

The gods don't grant any summons, they don't have the power to. That's a sacrifice they made (willing or not) when they created Nirn.

The summons that we use in TES are all summoned from the Planes of Oblivion and have ties to different Daedric lords, which is why conjuration is looked down on by many people and seen as dangerous because the essence of conjuration at the end of the day is pulling Daedra from Oblivion (forcibly unless you are a follower if a Daedric Lord and are summoning from their cohorts with their blessing) and using a spell to dominate the mind of the Daedra to do your bidding; the stronger the domination the longer the Daedra remains under your control.

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DunnyOfPenwick
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by DunnyOfPenwick »

I might have to switch from divines to something else, probably daedric origin. Possibly an enchanted token of some sort.

What is currently the best repositoy of Elder Scrolls/Daggerfall lore?

I might have to put this on the back burner for a while and implement the Create Atronach spell first.

Jarlyjarljarl
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:37 am

Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by Jarlyjarljarl »

DunnyOfPenwick wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:30 pm I might have to switch from divines to something else, probably daedric origin. Possibly an enchanted token of some sort.

What is currently the best repositoy of Elder Scrolls/Daggerfall lore?

I might have to put this on the back burner for a while and implement the Create Atronach spell first.
The Imperial Library is the definitive repository for TES lore: https://www.imperial-library.info/

UESP is also good but less accurate sometimes, it covers the same topics from the perspective that is typically more gameplay oriented rather than academic oriented: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page

Also, you can easily get away with animal-esque summons by simply claiming they're being summoned from Hircirne's realm. The Daedric Lords are quite a diverse bunch, as are the Daedra who follow them. Daedra themselves only have fleeting loyalties and align themselves with the lords that they think best serve their interests or goals. So you could just as easily summon a Fire Atronach from one Daedric Lords realm as another, although they're more likely to come from realms with lots of fire. For example, during the time of Daggerfall I'm fairly certain that the majority of Dark Seducers are aligned with Nocturnal but in Oblivion most serve Sheogorath because their birth places (where they are reborn once killed) have ended up in his realms of insanity.

daggerdude
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by daggerdude »

Just noticed this, I think for starters, less is more. Being able to use a symbol and open a religious spellbook would be nice. or holy tomes... and summon with a holy dagger.

I think the basic ideas you have are good: the 9 divines can heal, bless, empower an attribute, and a sort of divine failsafe (killing blows avoided, a short term escape spell or something, ect.)

I like the idea of gaining and losing divine favor; i would say spending time in the temple or perhaps just praying when using the tomes or symbol can grant some favor, paying for a blessing of favor or something from a temple priest, or doing specific holy actions to gain favor depending on the context and the god.

For Dibella, it could be flirting with a female npc at the tavern, for Stendarr it could be giving to a beggar, for Arkay it could be smiting undead enemies. idk.

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King of Worms
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by King of Worms »

I like it. Only thing which came to my mind is, that if the player answers "none" to the God question, this whole extension will be unavailable to him, without him even realizing it happened.

Idea which I had was, that if he answers "none" he might be more prone to becoming a necromancer, in a sense unable to summon living things, but can summon skeletons, zombie etc

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DunnyOfPenwick
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by DunnyOfPenwick »

I partially implemented summoning in the Create Atronach mod. The ability to create atronachs is already well established within the game's lore (there are fighter's guild and mage's guild quests where the PC has to handle summoned atronachs running amuck).

The Illusory Decoy mod is a type of general purpose summoning.

Necromancy is also supported by game lore, so I guess that is the only thing left to add as far as summoning magic is concerned. If someone uses necromancy magic, they would lose favor with the divine factions.

As far as divine aid, I haven't put any more thought into it since my earlier post. I'm thinking divine benefits or boons would probably be somewhat passive in nature, mostly for flavor.

Regnier
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by Regnier »

maybe some of the summons could be tied to your life force.

Summoning will reduce your max health for the duration or you will take some damage when the summon is damaged

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Jay_H
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by Jay_H »

you will take some damage when the summon is damaged
Down to some established minimum, I hope. I still remember my first Necromancer in Diablo 2 who invested in the Blood Golem. Any time I cast it, I'd die instantly because he'd get hit in combat :lol:

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DunnyOfPenwick
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Re: [WIP] Divine Aid : Looking for Suggestions

Post by DunnyOfPenwick »

I like the idea of sacrificing health and/or endurance. That would fit well with necromancy. To keep things simple, the PC could lose max health/endurance for a period of time, maybe a day or two, as an incumbent effect. [Edit: Maybe a chance of contracting a disease e.g. Witch's Pox, Caliron's Curse]

If a dead humanoid body is available nearby, a zombie can be raised. A destroyed undead creature could be raised as a skeleton. Raising a skeleton would have a lower cost.

Regarding the original 'divine aid' idea, I wonder if having a high status with a divine faction might enable the PC to create alliances with creatures they have pacified with language skills. For instance, having a high standing with Julianos might give you a chance to ally a mage that you have pacified, high standing with Dibella might allow alliance with Nymphs, etc. This would be a type of a non-magical 'summoning'.

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