AI Upscaled Textures

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King of Worms
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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by King of Worms » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:25 am

Very impressive

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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by charlieg » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:24 am

Kamer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:53 am
True but if we can get hi-rez upscaled versions of the original sprites, then making models and pre-rendering them would be a waste of time cause this looks like a much better option. If anything the goal of the project will change. Probably to modernize the sprites by giving them extra details but keeping to the artstyle as close as possible. That rat looks amazing btw.
I disagree. There's just something that 3D provides that 2D does not.

Either you go the spriter route (@MasonFace) where you make the 2D sprites very dynamic backed by 3D models, or you have 3D model replacements, and that will always be superior to even upscaled or HD 2D sprites.

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MasonFace
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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by MasonFace » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:20 pm

Well, it appears you got the best pattern for upscaling NPC sprites. But how about the humanoid ones?
It appears to handle humanoids pretty well too. I may try the thief or archer next to compare but I don't foresee any issues.
GiantUpscale.png
GiantUpscale.png (187.67 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Last edited by MasonFace on Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by King of Worms » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

:shock: fingers crossed for you to be able to batch process all the sprites

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mikeprichard
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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by mikeprichard » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:36 pm

Some stupid questions (because I'm too lazy to read through everything in this 24-page topic, ha):

1) Are MasonFace's updates (e.g. to that Giant a couple posts above) still 2D sprites (I think so), or 3D models?
2) In testing, do these updates impact the overall DFU framerate/loading times?
3) Are these monster graphic updates going to be included in D.R.E.A.M.?

Whatever the answers, this work is incredible! There's been a lot of great work over the past few years on the rest of the graphics in DFU, but the enemy sprites have been critically lacking in terms of fully developed mod upgrades so far. Looks like that may change soon.

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MasonFace
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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by MasonFace » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:05 pm

Some stupid questions (because I'm too lazy to read through everything in this 24-page topic, ha)
It's all explained on the very first post of this thread my man, lol, but I'll summarize here:

This project is about using artificial intelligence to upscale the original vanilla DF graphics. Originally, only textures were within the scope of the project, but I've branched out due to popular demand to include NPCs, MOBs, and sprites, but that explains the "AI UPSCALED TEXTURES " title.
1) Are MasonFace's updates (e.g. to that Giant just a couple posts above) still 2D sprites, or 3D models?
Still 2D sprites, just higher resolution.
2) In testing, do they impact the framerate/loading times?
Haven't gotten enough upscaled assets generated to do any meaningful tests, but the file sizes are pretty small. I would estimate that total VRAM usage of all the upscaled MOBs would weight in around 100 MB which isn't very big for modern machines. EDIT: I'm going to give a high end estimate of 400MB on the hard drive, and much much lower usage in VRAM (probably around 50MB or so depending on the situation) since DFU (probably?) only loads into VRAM the sprite atlases that are needed at the time. This is all contingent upon the final compression method and a few other factors that haven't been fully decided yet. The effect on framerate would be negligible for most computers since the sprites use Interkarma's batched billboard shader so they remain highly performant, even when rendered in large numbers.
3) Are these monster graphic updates going to be included in D.R.E.A.M.?
As stated on the first post: "My opinion is that all generated textures/sprites that have been contributed should be made public to the community so anyone can curate their own collection." D.R.E.A.M. would fit that category, so yes I intend to allow KoW to include this finished project in D.R.E.A.M. project. I will also publish the results in GIMP format so anyone can modify the results to their liking and possibly refine them to a whole new level of quality.

Note to KoW: When this gets incorporated into DREAM, please also include MrFlibble in the credits as his contributions to this project have been extremely helpful.
Whatever the answers, this work is incredible! There's been a lot of great work over the past few years on the rest of the graphics in DFU, but the enemy sprites have been critically lacking in terms of fully developed mod upgrades so far. Looks like that may change soon.
Thanks for the praise! And here's to hoping I can get this project completed sooner rather than later! :)
Last edited by MasonFace on Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by mikeprichard » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:00 pm

MasonFace - I have to say your answers were all exactly what I wanted to hear. :) Thanks for your patience with the explanations. And speaking as always as someone who just sits back and watches other people create amazing stuff for me to enjoy in DFU, even if you only get a handful of sprites upgraded to your satisfaction, having those available in D.R.E.A.M. and/or other mods will still be a huge improvement. I can only imagine how much time and effort a project of this scope requires, and you're not exactly getting paid for this, so whatever you and others contribute to the community is always appreciated!

One final very basic question: other than NPCs and enemies, what is included in the scope of "sprites" (as opposed to "textures")? I understand the general concepts, but I'm not sure what else in DFU other than the NPCs and enemies hasn't already been touched by (for example) D.R.E.A.M. in terms of textures and AlexanderSig's compilation of models. Guess I'm just confused about various possibly overlapping terms being used when it comes to the categories of graphics used in DFU (sprites, statics, flats, mobs, etc.).

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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by King of Worms » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:07 pm

Thanks for being open with this mod MasonFace, it will be a pleasure and honor the be able to have this work in a Dream, maybe as a option or a default. Time will tell. And I will make a proper credits to both of you guys! Thats the future tho and when the time comes, we will discuss is in more of a detail. All I can say is Im very impressed and looking forward to where this all will lead. Big respect to you guys.

About the overlapping of sprites, models, and upscaling techniques... this is also future. I think we all can continue what we are doing, because its also our hobby and passion. Than we can decide.. Now, I have no idea how it will end exactly, but sure thing is, it will be epic :)

Each approach is valid and has its pros.. Im quite sure my NPCs for example will be valid no matter what, even more so when Adrinus enhanced them with his shading and proportion corrections, new faces etc. Thats beyond any AI of nowadays... Some ppl will enjoy trees in a form of sprites, some will use 3d... etc..

Maybe there will be more versions to choose from. Pure sprite remake, AI upscale remake, 3d remake, mixed remake... no idea :D But that deccission will be just the icing on the top.. and there is still lots of things to do. I have a feeling, that when DFU will hit 1.0, we might be reaching the completion on the main mods as well. But its a future, and you never know how things will evolve, I can be completely wrong .)

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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by MasonFace » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:46 pm

. . . you're not exactly getting paid for this . . .
Wait, you guys aren't going to pay me for this?! Ah man, screw this!

Jk! :lol:
One final very basic question: other than NPCs and enemies, what is included in the scope of "sprites" (as opposed to "textures")? I understand the general concepts, but I'm not sure what else in DFU other than the NPCs and enemies hasn't already been touched by (for example) D.R.E.A.M. in terms of textures and AlexanderSig's compilation of models.
I think the MOBs and townsfolk NPCs (just the animated ones that walk around town) are the ones that would be most crucial for this project in order to fill in the gaps of DREAM because they are too numerous for artists to recreate in HD in a reasonable amount of time, and crowd sourcing it with many artists would likely produce disjointed results. Next priority would likely be foliage and environment flats, but it looks like VMblast is chipping away at that venture. The next opportunity would be animated sprites like the farm animals and such. I'd have to take a look at the latest DREAM version and AlexanderSig's Model pack to see where the biggest gaps are. Another big thing I'm working on is upscaling the videos: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1155&start=10#p21653 which uses a similar approach.

I do intend to upscale nearly all the graphics eventually since I believe this method will give the truest to vanilla experience with enhanced graphics while also not requiring a high end PC to run smoothly. I'm thinking that my MOD will be called "PVE" or "Pure Vanilla Extract" and will be geared more towards the taste of Daggerfall purists than high end graphics enthusiasts. I believe more graphics options are better for the DFU community overall.

As an aside, another thing I'd like to do in the long term is to add extra animation frames, but that's a stretch goal. ;)

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Re: AI Upscaled Textures

Post by mikeprichard » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:15 pm

You didn't get my bank wire? Sorry, check's in the mail. ;) So from your explanation, I think I get it - KoW/Adrinus etc. have generally already covered the static/"flat" town NPCs, you're working on animated mobs/enemies and animated town NPCs, VMblast and maybe others are looking at foliage "flats", and later on someone might get to the animated animals. All sounds good to me.

And KoW, I wasn't actually suggesting anything about overlapping methods for doing this work - I just meant the way people were talking about these terms ("flats", "statics", etc.) across the forum seemed to overlap with each other (i.e. one person called something in classic Daggerfall one thing, another person called it another thing, but they were both talking about the same concept). But I guess everything MasonFace and I mentioned above is considered a "sprite". Thanks folks!

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