Mesh Replacement Test

Show off your mod creations or just a work in progress.
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Interkarma
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Interkarma » Mon May 23, 2016 8:12 am

Where's a /bowdown emote when you need one? This is incredible work.

Narf the Mouse
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Narf the Mouse » Mon May 23, 2016 6:30 pm

Really cool. Congratulations. :)
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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LypyL
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by LypyL » Mon May 23, 2016 9:16 pm

It's glorious! The great thing about replacing meshes & flats is they're reused so much even replacing a handful can make a big difference.

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Uncanny_Valley
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Uncanny_Valley » Tue May 24, 2016 7:59 pm

Thanks for all your feedback and nice words! :) I'm not the best at responding to people in the threads I create, but I always read them and I do appreciate it. Just so you know! ;)
Biboran wrote:Amazing job! I prefer low poly version without smoothing. You can add some details and new texture, but not to high. For me best graphics replace for daggerfall is like in games like Thief 1-2 or hexen 2 etc.
More advanced graphics will stand out from overall picture if you know what I mean.
Anyway, big thanks for your work. Can't wait new updates!
I agree that more advanced graphics do clash with the existing art style, which in my opinion is more cartoony than for example, later elder scroll titles. With the models that I have created thus far, I really haven't established or worked with any visual guidelines, it's more experimentation of what I can do with my minor graphical skills. ;)
With what I created thus far, I do plan to remake the texture for the boxes, which is far to photo-realistic in my opinion. Then I will probably go back and see what improvements I can do for the other models.

On a side note... I think this would be a good time to start and organize a Daggerfall graphical replacement project. I know that there is already a handfull of existing replacement assets out there, and there is also probably a few talented artist that would like to contribute more. The one thing that is missing is for someone to organize everything. Creating a list of all Daggerfall assets and which replacements exists, collecting all these assets in a central location, establish a visual guideline for quality and style, and help out with overall communication, etc.
Sadly, I don't have the time do this myself...
I can help out by periodically collecting all the assets, and package them correctly for everyone to enjoy in game. With more replacement assets at my disposal, it will be easier for me to continue working on code and find the most optimal way to replace different types of objects. It would also be a huge motivator for me to add a few extra hours into this project. ;)
How does this sound and is anyone interested in taking on this responsibility?

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Jay_H
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Jay_H » Tue May 24, 2016 9:05 pm

Uncanny_Valley wrote:With the models that I have created thus far, I really haven't established or worked with any visual guidelines, it's more experimentation of what I can do with my minor graphical skills. ;)

...The one thing that is missing is for someone to organize everything. Creating a list of all Daggerfall assets and which replacements exists, collecting all these assets in a central location, establish a visual guideline for quality and style, and help out with overall communication, etc.
I would imagine this is one of those things that will see full implementation in a variety of ways. Morrowind is unique in that it has a single "official body mod" (Better Bodies), but Oblivion and Skyrim have a variety of mods that really depend on taste. I wouldn't worry so much about setting standards; like with the other games' mods, it may be best to just let people offer what they can (for good and for less-good) and store and/or list each offering here. At least that's how I envision things in the future, but that's certainly not official.

To not be misunderstood, though, I fully support every effort made for graphical overhauls in DFU.

There has been a suggestion a few times in the past of using assets from other games to supplement Daggerfall's graphics that I want to address, since this is as good a time as any. Companies such as Ion Storm are very good at making games, and they are also very good at protecting their intellectual property. I would recommend caution in this regard. In recent times there have been a few examples of companies setting their foot down to stop an entire project due to disagreements regarding intellectual property (1) (2) (3). A new platform for Daggerfall looks to be on safe legal ground due to the agreement reached between the OpenMW team and Bethesda, which is bolstered by the fact that Daggerfall was released freely to the public (though that would not be interpreted as a license to use its assets for any other project). But were we to use the assets of some company that was not Bethesda, there is no agreement we can look back to as safe ground. Therefore I suggest that mods be created from assets submitted as original works by developers themselves.
Come join Lysandus' Tomb, a Daggerfall Unity fan Discord.
In-progress guide for Quest Pack 1 here.

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Biboran
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Biboran » Tue May 24, 2016 9:29 pm

On a side note... I think this would be a good time to start and organize a Daggerfall graphical replacement project.
Yeah, this is amazing idea! :D
establish a visual guideline for quality and style,
As I said, for me, lore-style friendly replacement need to be
1.Low (not too low) poly
2. watercolor textures (I can't remember how it will be in English. But.. you know, not photographic)
3.New model need to look like original and not distracting from the overall picture.

The best example of same rules but for TESIII is this: https://sketchfab.com/peterbitt They HD, but had same style, and in vanilla game looks perfectly.
How does this sound and is anyone interested in taking on this responsibility?
I had a lot of time now, but I don't think my skills in... all can be usefull. But if I organize process, at fist I would divide objects in 2 categories:
1.Objects, who actually in 3d in game but need to be replaced
a).Small objects (bed, fountain, fireplace etc.)
b).Big objects (Dungeon blocks, house exteriors, house interiors etc.)
2.Objects, who 2d in game, but need to be replaced to 3d (It simply can be organized through Daggerfall Imaging, all object of this type there)
a).NPCs (monsters and random peds in tows)
b).Static NPCs (you know, NPCs who had one sprite and cows/camels/pigs/dogs etc)
c).Flora and Fauna (Rocks, threes etc.)
d).Dungeon objects
e).City objects (Street lamps, wells etc.)

Another category is Interface (1st person player's weapons, hands) but I think this is need to be another project for "modern interface"

And about class-like human creature - with 3d it can be like in modern TES games: this is human model, who wear that armor who he had in his bag.
in that it has a single "official body mod" (Better Bodies)
I not agree. :( For me BB and BF typical example how NOT do lore friendly replacer. Original bodies (elfs especially) had his own structure. And about faces there are no true lore friendly face replacer. Maybe peterbitt, link of his work I post before, star work on this front. He had plans to do that, I think. He demonstrated some alpha models of heads on OpenMW forums.

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Uncanny_Valley
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Uncanny_Valley » Wed May 25, 2016 7:48 am

Jay_H wrote:
I would imagine this is one of those things that will see full implementation in a variety of ways. Morrowind is unique in that it has a single "official body mod" (Better Bodies), but Oblivion and Skyrim have a variety of mods that really depend on taste. I wouldn't worry so much about setting standards; like with the other games' mods, it may be best to just let people offer what they can (for good and for less-good) and store and/or list each offering here. At least that's how I envision things in the future, but that's certainly not official.
I don't see this as anything "official" but rather just "a" graphical replacement project. It doesn't stop anyone from creating their own projects now or in the future, Creating something now will simply help with the development to find better ways to implement replacement assets, but also help draw more attention to Daggerfall for unity. Any standard we set is simply for this projects and nothing else.

Jay_H wrote:
But were we to use the assets of some company that was not Bethesda, there is no agreement we can look back to as safe ground. Therefore I suggest that mods be created from assets submitted as original works by developers themselves.
Yes, it's always important to aware of intellectual property. When it comes to engine replacements, it's usually fine, since your are not distribution any copyrighted material, projects like OpenMW and DFU. OpenMW did have some legal back and forth with Bethesda, which mostly was an misunderstanding from Bethesda's lawyers about what OpenMW exactly was, but also because someone outside the project had made their own version of OpenMW to run on android/IOS devices, which infringed on the game's user agreement.
When it comes to 3D assets, it should all be original. And it can't be from any other Elder Scroll games. Bethesda specifically doesn't allow assets to be moves from one game to another, meaning you can't rip out a 3D asset of a chair in Morrowind and put in Daggerfall. Also, if you have a created a replacement model for that chair in Morrowind, you can't technically use that model in Daggerfall, because it would (or could) be considered "derivative work" of the original Morrowind model. Copyright law is fun. :lol:
Biboran wrote:
As I said, for me, lore-style friendly replacement need to be
1.Low (not too low) poly
2. watercolor textures (I can't remember how it will be in English. But.. you know, not photographic)
3.New model need to look like original and not distracting from the overall picture.

The best example of same rules but for TESIII is this: https://sketchfab.com/peterbitt They HD, but had same style, and in vanilla game looks perfectly.

I had a lot of time now, but I don't think my skills in... all can be usefull. But if I organize process, at fist I would divide objects in 2 categories:
1.Objects, who actually in 3d in game but need to be replaced
a).Small objects (bed, fountain, fireplace etc.)
b).Big objects (Dungeon blocks, house exteriors, house interiors etc.)
2.Objects, who 2d in game, but need to be replaced to 3d (It simply can be organized through Daggerfall Imaging, all object of this type there)
a).NPCs (monsters and random peds in tows)
b).Static NPCs (you know, NPCs who had one sprite and cows/camels/pigs/dogs etc)
c).Flora and Fauna (Rocks, threes etc.)
d).Dungeon objects
e).City objects (Street lamps, wells etc.)

Another category is Interface (1st person player's weapons, hands) but I think this is need to be another project for "modern interface"

And about class-like human creature - with 3d it can be like in modern TES games: this is human model, who wear that armor who he had in his bag.
Great work Biboran. I think this is a great start and I agree with everything you stated above. :D

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Jay_H
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Jay_H » Wed May 25, 2016 5:49 pm

Uncanny_Valley wrote:I don't see this as anything "official" but rather just "a" graphical replacement project. It doesn't stop anyone from creating their own projects now or in the future, Creating something now will simply help with the development to find better ways to implement replacement assets, but also help draw more attention to Daggerfall for unity. Any standard we set is simply for this projects and nothing else.
Yeah, you're right. Sorry, I'm just misinterpreting things. I'll look forward to what comes out.
Come join Lysandus' Tomb, a Daggerfall Unity fan Discord.
In-progress guide for Quest Pack 1 here.

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EpicSpellsword404
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by EpicSpellsword404 » Fri May 27, 2016 9:09 pm

Nice work Uncanny Valley :)
But for some reason, the link isn't working.

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Uncanny_Valley
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Re: Mesh Replacement Test

Post by Uncanny_Valley » Sat May 28, 2016 10:11 am

EpicSpellsword404 wrote:Nice work Uncanny Valley :)
But for some reason, the link isn't working.
Hmmm... seems the filedropper service I use deletes the file rather quickly after I upload it. Does anyone have a good suggestion about some other place where I can upload it, so it stays there more permanently?

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