Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

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NikitaTheTanner
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Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by NikitaTheTanner » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:50 am

Here is some work I have done in the last few days. I've slowly compiled a full collection of heraldry for every region, as well as some prominent factions.

I do think Daggerfall will benefit from improving upon the world, detailing the factions and the world. Symbols are one of the first things which came to my mind.

Consider these "Concepts", for their quality varies and I am not sure how useful they would actually be in the game. But I've tried to capture the feel of every place, name and faction in these, as well as make every single one simple, unique and memorable.

If you have some comments or critique, feel free to post here. I am glad to improve upon these as much as possible. And no, I did not draw these, at least not most of them, I am a rather poor artist. They are mostly compiled from other images and somewhat edited.

P.S. Updated pictures with the new versions, since I consider them an improvement.

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Last edited by NikitaTheTanner on Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Narf the Mouse
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by Narf the Mouse » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:05 am

Sounds useful for playing the political game. :)
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

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NikitaTheTanner
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by NikitaTheTanner » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:28 am

Yeah, the idea is to give some visual representation to every power in the game, where it makes sense. It could be used in a variety of ways: in UI to show relationship and reputation, on banners and tapestries to show allegiance of the place, maybe even on armor and shields one day, etc.

Plus, hopefully, we might start talking about different factions and regions, what makes them special and how we can improve on that in future mods. For instance, politics, history, economics of factions and regions, etc.

For example, if you look at Vampire Clan symbols, you can see that they are rather specific. I was thinking about vampires a lot and I think managed to create a somewhat unique concept for every one of the nine clans (although, everything feels somewhat derivative from VTM, but that's unavoidable, really, unless you create something insanely unique).

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LorrMaster42
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by LorrMaster42 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:39 am

Nice! I really want to see factions taking over different locations at somepoint, maybe even changing the region borders on the map. Lots of room for a huge, evolving world in this game.

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VMblast
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by VMblast » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:00 am

Interesting. And they are well done. ;)

I do have few creative critique comments:
Factions
-Dark Brotherhood /too complex (hand-drawing)
-Empire /looks too modern (not sure if this is that dragonborn logo or it was in Daggerfall as well)
-Mages Guild /too Egyptian
-Thieves Guild /too complex (hand have complex shading) -also Im not quite sure if the symbolism is correct/clear one, it could also mean shop or trade.

Hammerfell Regions
-Alik'r /too complex (camel)
-Dragontail Mountains /not clear (visibility not good)
-Mournot /too modern (drawing)
-Tigonus/too complex (drawing)

High Rock Regions
-Orsinium Area /not clear (visibility not good)

The Divines
-Talos /too modern (same as empire insignia)

Vampire Clans
-Anthosis /little bit pulling towards Egypt
-Haarvenu /too modern
-Lyrezi /a little bit comical
-Montalion /too complex
-Thrafey /too modern


Tho these are just some my personal and minor observations.

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NikitaTheTanner
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by NikitaTheTanner » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:50 am

Thanks for the input, Vladimir! I was looking for some artistic critique for these and I largely agree with your points, though not all of them.
-Dark Brotherhood /too complex (hand-drawing)
This I can probably change. Only the hand is out of place, right?
-Empire /looks too modern
Really don't want to change this one, maybe edit it a little bit to fit slightly better, but the sign comes directly from Morrowind, and to me, Morrowind is the holy grail of TES lore :)

This drawing is supposed to be inspired by Akavir style and the small diamond on top is supposed to represent Septim dynasty.

Image
-Mages Guild /too Egyptian
This can be altered if necessary, but not sure if that's a problem. I will look into changing this one, though.
-Thieves Guild /too complex (hand have complex shading) -also Im not quite sure if the symbolism is correct/clear one, it could also mean shop or trade.
Yeah, the hand is quite complex, though it supposed to be a heraldic drawing as far as I can see. I guess it's from a book about Coats of Arms and that is why it looks out of place.

I will think about changing this one, it might be a bit unclear. I first started with Skyrim's rather boring symbol, but later thought that it didn't look good and made this one. To me personally, it kinda looks funny, but in a good way!

I mean, the sign is just a hand taking somebody's money! How more obvious can you be as a Thieves guild :lol: Maybe they don't even need a Coat of Arms, but I'd rather give them one.
-Alik'r /too complex (camel)
Interesting! The camel is taken from the actual Coat of Arms of Russian region of Chelyabinsk (yeah, far away from any hot deserts). Maybe the drawing is too modern on it. Will look into it!
Spoiler!
Image
-Dragontail Mountains /not clear (visibility not good)
Okay, that's kinda true. Will work with this one!
-Mournot /too modern (drawing)
Too modern? You mean the style? Or the technique? I guess, they could use a more modern style.

I was trying to make Redguard insignia more unique and different from European ones, while keeping Breton ones as traditional as possible, just for extra flavour. Will try to do something about this one, though.
-Tigonus/too complex (drawing)
Actually based on the Iranian Coat of Arms, though this particular iteration might be a tad too modern.
Spoiler!
Image
-Orsinium Area /not clear (visibility not good)
Is it the colors or the image? It's based on another fan-made flag I've found online and it was really hard to find a fitting anvil and a hammer for it, so I had to edit a stock image and it might not look great. Will think about this one, I am also not very proud of this particular insignia.
-Anthosis /little bit pulling towards Egypt
This is more than intentional. They live in Alik'r desert of Hammerfell. Here are some of the concepts I have for the clan.
Spoiler!
ImageImage
-Haarvenu /too modern
Okay, I will see what I can do, but I chose a more modern style here to distinguish it as a Vampire clan. Otherwise, if it's traditional, it looks too normal and doesn't look scary enough. Glenumbra Moors also has a wolf, for example. But maybe I can find a compromise here.
-Lyrezi /a little bit comical
Haha! That might be true, thogh it is the best drawing of a bat that I found. And I want one of vampire insignias to have a bat and it fits this clan quite well, though I might change the design of the bat if I find a better one.
-Montalion /too complex
Might be, though I am not sure about this one. Will try to find a different rose later on.
-Thrafey /too modern
Okay, I see it here, though maybe these is also caused by my desire to make Vampire signs unique. Maybe, I will find a better fitting spider.

-------
Anyway, thanks a lot for the input, really appreciate it. I will try to do some changes here and there, though probably won't change everything. Some actually look worse in close up, so we'll have to see which ones I change.

I would like to change: Orsinium Area, Dragontail Mountains, Dark Brotherhood, maybe Mages Guild and Tigonus. Others - also possible, but not sure.

If anyone finds fitting images and/or propose design changes in this topic, I would be glad to see input. But for Vladimir, don't waste time trying to redraw these, I think original textures are far bigger priority and I would hate taking up your time on my side project! :P

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VMblast
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by VMblast » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:26 am

-Dark Brotherhood /too complex (hand-drawing)
This I can probably change. Only the hand is out of place, right?

-Yep
___________________
-Empire /looks too modern
Really don't want to change this one, maybe edit it a little bit to fit slightly better, but the sign comes directly from Morrowind, and to me, Morrowind is the holy grail of TES lore :)
This drawing is supposed to be inspired by Akavir style and the small diamond on top is supposed to represent Septim dynasty.

-Ok (I wasnt sure where it came from originally -dont know TES that much in dept) ;)
___________________
-Mages Guild /too Egyptian
This can be altered if necessary, but not sure if that's a problem. I will look into changing this one, though.

-Just the symbol is to recognizable as Egyptian (of Earth culture) -brakes up the illusion.

___________________
-Alik'r /too complex (camel)
Interesting! The camel is taken from the actual Coat of Arms of Russian region of Chelyabinsk (yeah, far away from any hot deserts). Maybe the drawing is too modern on it. Will look into it!

-Just its a bit too modern-sh with its complex drawing style.

___________________
-Mournot /too modern (drawing)
Too modern? You mean the style? Or the technique? I guess, they could use a more modern style.

-I would say style. But style and technique in the cases of heraldry are intertwined.

____________________
-Tigonus/too complex (drawing)
Actually based on the Iranian Coat of Arms, though this particular iteration might be a tad too modern.

-Same comment as in Alik`r -just too modernish complexity

_____________________
-Orsinium Area /not clear (visibility not good)
Is it the colors or the image? It's based on another fan-made flag I've found online and it was really hard to find a fitting anvil and a hammer for it, so I had to edit a stock image and it might not look great. Will think about this one, I am also not very proud of this particular insignia.

-Yeah, image is good, but colors are too indistinguishable.

_____________________

Cheers ;)

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jman0war
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by jman0war » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:51 am

They look sharp, well done.
My least favorite is the Empire.
It's just not a strong symbol or colours.

Imaging showing these without the names to a person that knows nothing about TES and asking them, one of these heralds is used by the Empire, which one?
I bet not one person would pick that skinny dragon symbol.

Totambu is my fav, it's really pretty.

Daggerfall one reminds me a little too much of the flag of Wales.
But i suppose that's DF.
I have always noticed the strong influence of Welsh gaelic names in HR.
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NikitaTheTanner
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by NikitaTheTanner » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:45 pm

Changed some of the factions slightly. What do you think?

Image

P.S. Plus some Hammerfell regions!

Image

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VMblast
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Re: Daggerfall Heraldry Concepts

Post by VMblast » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:44 pm

NikitaTheTanner wrote:Changed some of the factions slightly. What do you think?

Image

P.S. Plus some Hammerfell regions!

Image
Yeah the changes look better.

Factions
-Dark broderhood -Nice ;)
-Empire -looking better
-Mages Guild -looking good, real good :)
-Thieves guild -thats really nice idea

Hammerfell Regions
-Alik`r -spot on
-Dragontail mountains -that hit the spot
-Mournoth -yep
-Tigonus -better /tho the only concern here is that the sun (or what I think is sun) is the same color as lion, so it doesn't separate well.



Also my suggestion for you, is to maybe try to use different shield shapes (escutcheon), to give them more personality. ;)
Examples:
Image

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