Roads of Daggerfall

Show off your mod creations or just a work in progress.
Post Reply
User avatar
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:43 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by ByteMixer »

Some thoughts of mine:

Rather than the Daggerfall region, it might be smarter to use a small province with relatively fewer points of interest as a starting point to generate the road. Maybe Isle of Balfiera, or Lainlyn, Orsinium, etc. A small province near or in a mountainous region could be a good test ground as you would see how the roads behave moving from more even terrain to more rugged and extreme heights. Smaller region would also mean less time spent on generating the roads, and ability to make faster decisions on tweaking the algorithms. Once the model is set up and working as expected, apply it to a larger province like Daggerfall and see how it behaves. Make adjustments as necessary.

Another concern is that certain mods might break the generation algorithm, unless the generation (based on the graph) is sophisticated enough to handle changes in terrain, or recognize a landscape mod earlier in the load order and use those values instead of vanilla terrain coordinates; have an option for the user to regenerate the roads in the mod options screen.

Recognize load order: load the landscapes mod first, then load the roads mod, and have it do a one-time generation of the roads, detecting heights/coordinates based on the landscape mod. Or something like that.

Since the roads would be generated on a preset criteria, it would only need to be generated once, and simply store the values somewhere rather than regenerate the roads every time you load the game. If the landscape mod is changed or removed, allow a player to regenerate the road map, and overwrite the previous values in the mod options screen.

My chief concern is that all the terrain in Daggerfall is procedural, and massive based on whatever seed the devs used originally. So in some cases, the roads mod algorithm would need to be sophisticated enough to detect large changes in height over a short distance (a road should not go up a very steep incline, or straight over a mountain peak for example) to not generate roads over very steep inclines or cliffs. (not that Daggerfall has actual cliffs or plateaus, but you know what I mean)

A road generating mod would need to have some sort of rule or law in place that prevents it from going up too steep an incline, and instead, seek the nearest path of least resistance around the incline. So, you'd need a rule to check for height, avoid creating a road over very steep terrain, and use some sort of lookahead method to find a better route that makes more sense based on coordinates change in height.

Something like that, anyway. Otherwise, you might have an issue of a road texture climbing up a cliff or very steep hill.

Thinking very far ahead, but perhaps road textures could be based on the size of the points of interest's cells somehow. Roads between Daggerfall and another large city might be paved, but roads between smaller backwater towns, inns or temples, might be dirt roads. Maybe a road changes from paved to dirt X distance from a dungeon or crypt point of interest.

I'm just bouncing some ideas out there since this is still all conceptual in nature anyway. :)
"Whatever you do, make good art." - Neil Gaiman

User avatar
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:51 am
Location: San Antonio TX

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by Midknightprince »

I hope you guys can make this work.
It would make DFU even more amazing..
Check out my YouTube Channel!

User avatar
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:41 am

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by ZephaniahNoah »

Have you heard of Their road maps reminded me of slime mold. :lol: I wonder if they have any useful information. :?:

Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by Behr11 »

Is there an active progress report on this mod?

User avatar
Posts: 5843
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:51 am

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by Interkarma »

Welcome to the forums Behr11. :)

I don't believe Uncanny_Valley progressed this past the proof of concept stage. But at least it shows that roads in Daggerfall are feasible, it's just a lot of work to execute properly.

Hopefully someday UV will return to this concept, or someone else picks it up and runs with it.

User avatar
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:09 am

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by LorrMaster42 »

I think I remember hearing something about Unity getting a new terrain system sometime in the future, so maybe if we're lucky someone could include it in a terrain overhaul.

Narf the Mouse
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:32 pm

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by Narf the Mouse »

LorrMaster42 wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:22 am I think I remember hearing something about Unity getting a new terrain system sometime in the future, so maybe if we're lucky someone could include it in a terrain overhaul.
Unity Engine 2018.3 lists four improvements to the terrain system:

* GPU-instanced render path for terrain, yielding a dramatic reduction in draw calls for most cases.
* Auto-connect of adjacent terrain tiles.
* Seamless painting across multiple connected tiles
* An experimental C# API for building custom terrain tools, which can interact with newly introduced asset types for terrain materials and brushes
Previous experience tells me it's very easy to misunderstand the tone, intent, or meaning of what I've posted. If you have questions, ask.

User avatar
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by jayhova »

In the construction of roads, it is often a better idea to go around a hill than up and down it. The issues are two-fold: the actual distance is not as short as you might suspect owing to the curve traversed cresting a hill, second the force necessary to pull a laden wagon up an incline increases dramatically with the rate of that incline. The second problem is quite a large one for an empire whose lifeblood is commerce.

in my research on the subject, I found this book

The treatise discusses the fact that a moderately shorter road that dips and climbs make take longer to traverse than a road that is level because animal traffic will slow down on inclines an declines. If fact a horse will go slower on an equivalent decline than the same incline.

I'm sure the math included would be very helpful in creating algorithms for making road building procdures.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit. DFU Ver. Alpha 0.10.7

Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:34 am

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by alephnaught »

This is an absolutely wonderful idea (though ambitious) and I would love to see it implemented, hopefully a good procedural solution can be found with natural-looking results. Daggerfall's bland and empty overworld is by far the weakest part of the game and this would go some small way towards addressing that.

If roads were implemented, there's the potential for further use of procedural techniques to generate POIs along major routes (say, inns at crossroads, random shacks with bandits and loot, shrines etc) which would add yet more life and realism to the game world, and provide the player with reasons to actually explore. More terrain variation would also be wonderful though tricky; one could even implement more detailed biomes with forest areas, farmlands near towns, marshes, etc. Of course there's no way it could ever approach the detail of the later games but even a wee nudge in that direction would make a world of difference.

User avatar
Posts: 492
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:26 pm

Re: Roads of Daggerfall

Post by Kamer »

Every time someone bumps this thread I get excited with hope that progress has been made. Just a reminder how popular the idea is.

Post Reply