[W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Show off your mod creations or just a work in progress.
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ACNAero
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:27 pm

[W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by ACNAero »

With all the various talk I've seen of default classes being bad, I decided to try and make them better in various ways, either by buffing or trying to make them more unique. The goal is to make default classes that both newbies and vets can enjoy without having to worry about if the class they have is good or not. However, they are not meant to be ideal or power-gamed, just thematic and hopefully better than before; I don't want to invalidate the custom class maker and the limitless potential that has.

However, some classes are quite redundant with lots of overlap, or in some cases possibly unsalvageable while still keeping the original intent. In those cases, I may do more drastic changes, or in some cases replace the class with a new one altogether (while attempting to keep with the same general archetype). I try to keep this to a minimum, but it will happen to a few classes.

Warning: NPC Classes read from these same files, so they will also get the same skills and advantages/disadvantages. So beware the new Priests and Paladins smiting your Vampire PC.

Instructions and Changes are included as txt files in download.

Known and Possible Issues: In-game class descriptions are not updated by this, so you will still see the vanilla skills when selecting a class.
The class selection questionnaire may or may not work, I dunno. I don't think really anyone uses it beyond a one-time novelty anyways.

Mod can be downloaded here: https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/215
Last edited by ACNAero on Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:08 am, edited 5 times in total.

ACNAero
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by ACNAero »

Updated with all classes, and a few small BIOG changes. HP and Leveling Rates still unbalanced.

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Jay_H
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by Jay_H »

Good! I was planning on re-writing all the classes after my ridiculous spell mod, and you've saved me the trouble :lol: I'm gonna integrate this into the Kalaron story, and that'll give me some experience with these new classes (assuming I see humanoids; we'll see)

ACNAero
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by ACNAero »

Updated, all Thief and Mage classes have increased HP.
Jay_H wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:36 pm Good! I was planning on re-writing all the classes after my ridiculous spell mod, and you've saved me the trouble :lol: I'm gonna integrate this into the Kalaron story, and that'll give me some experience with these new classes (assuming I see humanoids; we'll see)
Thanks Jay! And let me know what happens if you come across a Monk and if they need toned down :lol:

ACNAero
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by ACNAero »

Updated with leveling speeds based on theoretical class difficulty. Thanks to Gorion's Ward on Discord for helping me with figuring out what they should be.

ACNAero
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by ACNAero »

Mod v1.0 is now released on the Nexus :mrgreen:

kiskoller
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by kiskoller »

Good Job! Your mod's classes are much better than vanilla, but sadly custom classes still trump these, especially a custom mage class. You can have both 3xInt SP, Spell Absorb and magicka regen without sacrificing anything really, which speaks more about the custom class creation than the default classes...

Still, not having 3x Int SP as a caster would neuter my character so much I'd rather stick with the custom classes.

At this point we should keep these default classes as you've made them and start nerfing the custom class creator in a separate mod.

ACNAero
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by ACNAero »

kiskoller wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:42 am Good Job! Your mod's classes are much better than vanilla, but sadly custom classes still trump these, especially a custom mage class.
...
At this point we should keep these default classes as you've made them and start nerfing the custom class creator in a separate mod.
Yeah, I know how busted the class maker is; my planned custom thief has HP d30, expertise in two weapon skills, general health regen, general rapid healing, and poison resistance, all with x0.3 leveling speed and disadvantages that aren't actually a disadvantage at all. My goal was to just make the defaults better for easy pick-and-play, either for new players who don't understand the class maker or for veterans who just want to jump in and play without worrying about being optimal. Plus, there's always mods to make these classes even better, including the mage ones... like the mod you're working on right now. :)
(Also, NPC enemies use these classes too. If I made these classes min-maxed, then NPC classes would all be min-maxed too, which is something I had to keep in mind making these.)

And thanks for the compliment about how these should be the standard ones! :D And yes, the class maker does need a serious balance mod done to it.

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harbinger451
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Re: [W.I.P.] Better Default Classes

Post by harbinger451 »

Great job. Love the idea of buffing the default classes. More than anything else, simply to make the human enemies in the game tougher, because they are often too easy to defeat with a massively buffed custom character. Quest enemies (Thief and Rogue types especially) often die with one blow and keep talking, due to the quest mechanics, even though they're already dead. :lol:
I'd probably buff them a bit further than you, though, just for personal tastes and probably minus a couple of the substitutions. I may do my own version of this closer to my preferences and quirks.
I'm curious, how did you calculate the level speed multipliers ... they don't seem to correspond with the Spell Advancement Dagger in the Custom Class maker when you input your HPs, Advantages and Disadvantages ... or am I reading the Dagger placement wrong? I always assumed that the Average mark was x1.0, but that also makes the original default leveling speeds given on the UESP wrong.

EDIT
Also, how does this affect quests that specifically spawn Healers, Burglars, Rogues, Acrobats and Knights (called by name in the quest code)? Will they spawn their replacements... or nothing?
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