Closed: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Need something opened in the core for your mod, or even help with research?
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Hazelnut
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Closed: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Hazelnut » Tue May 22, 2018 5:05 pm

The UESP page http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Temples states the following is the Stendarr special perk of membership:

"Avoid death: Rank × 2% chance to survive death (except from drowning) in a weaker state"

I've not been able to find any details about what the weaker state actually means. If someone can research this in classic DF and report back it would be very helpful.

The console commands guildjoin and guildrank should help. e.g. "guildjoin HolyOrder 33" & "guildrank HolyOrder 9"

For all I know it simply means you are left with 1hp, or it could reduce will etc

Krill'kern
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Krill'kern » Tue May 22, 2018 7:43 pm

Okay, so I downloaded and installed DaggerfallSetup, created a new character, modified the savefile with Daggered to give myself 100 rep with both Stendarr and the Temple of Stendarr, gave myself 100 Restoration, Critical Hit and Medical (they're all associated with Stendarr), waited for a month, got promoted to Patriarch, went to a local graveyard, found an orc and let myself be killed roughly 100 times.

As expected, this feature seems to be bugged. Nothing happens. In every single instance my character made a noise of pain, fell to the ground and back to the main screen. A few times (definitely less than 18%) my character went as low as 3, 2 or even 1 HP, but I'm 99% positive it was just coincidence (ie. I had quite a lot of health remaining and the orc hit particularly hard, etc). In those instances, my Attributes remained unchanged.

It is true however that my character seems to be a little bit bugged (the game can't decide whether I'm male or female, for instance), probably because I cheated, but I hope this doesn't have any relation to temple bonuses.

Should I post my savefile? :)

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Hazelnut
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Hazelnut » Tue May 22, 2018 8:13 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:05 pm
The console commands guildjoin and guildrank should help. e.g. "guildjoin HolyOrder 33" & "guildrank HolyOrder 9"
I'm a dumbass for so helpfully suggesting DFU commands immediately after saying it needs testing in classic. :oops: (I plead long day at work m'lud :lol:)

Thanks for doing the tests, really great to have the help. Seems highly likely that this was another intended feature documented in Chronicles but not implemented in the released game. Unless anyone posts anything to the contrary, I will leave it implemented the way it is now where you're left on 1 hp.

Al-Khwarizmi
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Tue May 22, 2018 8:20 pm

Um, I have no idea what the perk means, but my first interpretation of "a weaker state" would be poisoning and/or disease (and maybe drowning, but that's explicitly excluded).

I associate the word "state" to status effects typical in RPGs such as poisoned, hungry, diseased, paralyzed, drunk, etc.

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Jay_H
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Jay_H » Tue May 22, 2018 8:32 pm

That would be a pretty limited benefit in any case. Well, I suppose it's another avenue. For now, excellent testing, Krill'kern.
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Krill'kern
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Krill'kern » Tue May 22, 2018 9:43 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:13 pm
Hazelnut wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:05 pm
The console commands guildjoin and guildrank should help. e.g. "guildjoin HolyOrder 33" & "guildrank HolyOrder 9"
I'm a dumbass for so helpfully suggesting DFU commands immediately after saying it needs testing in classic. :oops: (I plead long day at work m'lud :lol:)

Thanks for doing the tests, really great to have the help. Seems highly likely that this was another intended feature documented in Chronicles but not implemented in the released game. Unless anyone posts anything to the contrary, I will leave it implemented the way it is now where you're left on 1 hp.
Thanks! Don't worry man, that's completely understandable :) Good thing Daggered has so many features.

Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:20 pm
Um, I have no idea what the perk means, but my first interpretation of "a weaker state" would be poisoning and/or disease (and maybe drowning, but that's explicitly excluded).

I associate the word "state" to status effects typical in RPGs such as poisoned, hungry, diseased, paralyzed, drunk, etc.
Yeah, that was one of the options. Unfortunately you don't seem to survive to begin with, so this "weakened state" never becomes noticeable.

Jay_H wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:32 pm
That would be a pretty limited benefit in any case. Well, I suppose it's another avenue. For now, excellent testing, Krill'kern.
Thank you :D By the way, I've been reading the tests you posted on the Mechanics threads about stuff like to hit chance. Insane work man. Did you guys ever figure the exact hit chance formula? :)

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Interkarma
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Interkarma » Tue May 22, 2018 9:52 pm

My interpretation is any blow that would have killed player has a (rank x 2% chance) to block that blow. The player remains alive and their health is set to something like 10-20% of their total (by the grace of Stendarr). That's the weakened state.

This is a fairly standard Paladin-styled mechanic in pen & paper RPGs and even World of Warcraft has something similar. I think the Knights of Stendarr are very lawful and paladin-like so this fits their kit perfectly.

It's entirely possible this is working in classic but it's not giving you any feedback so you don't even realise the save has taken place. It just looks like any other hit that didn't kill you. It's probably worth adding a popup or something in DFU just to give the player some feedback.

Krill'kern
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Krill'kern » Tue May 22, 2018 9:58 pm

That's entirely possible, yeah! Unfortunately I had no way of knowing what was actually happening, as you said :?

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Jay_H
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Jay_H » Wed May 23, 2018 1:20 am

Krill'kern wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:43 pm
Thank you :D By the way, I've been reading the tests you posted on the Mechanics threads about stuff like to hit chance. Insane work man. Did you guys ever figure the exact hit chance formula? :)
Thank you. Back in those days I was just testing everything that first came to mind. I was hoping to hit like a 90% fidelity for combat, but Allofich well exceeded that with his reverse engineering.

I think there are several things (like the Stendarr perk we speak of) that we actually don't want to duplicate perfectly, since they weren't implemented properly to begin with. My testing suggested that Agility, from 1 to 100 points, would only give a -5% to +5% combat advantage -- a vast misuse of so many attribute points :lol: I'm very happy that we have more precise technical methods available to get the data out.
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Hazelnut
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Re: Open: Temple of Stendarr special perk

Post by Hazelnut » Wed May 23, 2018 4:31 pm

Interkarma wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:52 pm
My interpretation is any blow that would have killed player has a (rank x 2% chance) to block that blow. The player remains alive and their health is set to something like 10-20% of their total (by the grace of Stendarr). That's the weakened state.

This is a fairly standard Paladin-styled mechanic in pen & paper RPGs and even World of Warcraft has something similar. I think the Knights of Stendarr are very lawful and paladin-like so this fits their kit perfectly.

It's entirely possible this is working in classic but it's not giving you any feedback so you don't even realise the save has taken place. It just looks like any other hit that didn't kill you. It's probably worth adding a popup or something in DFU just to give the player some feedback.
Seems reasonable. Do we want a percentage (i.e. relative to max HP) or a fixed small health? I would also be concerned at increasing health above what it was before the blow lands though.

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