Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

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Magicono43
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Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:11 am

I'm working on an aspect of my current modding project that involves messing around with how condition damage works. I would like to know all of the Maximum condition values of all the weapons and armor is in the game, but having trouble in doing that without unnecessary tedium.

How can I display a list of all these values? I've tried a few different ways, but trying to get an array from the "ItemHelper.cs" is giving me an error, so I don't really know how to call it properly.

Code: Select all

display = GetEnumArray(ItemGroups Weapons);
Debug.LogFormat("Weapons Array is {0}", display);
Yeah, this is likely a newbie question here, I know i'm probably not giving the proper values for an array, but i'm not really sure if I need it to be in a loop to function at all or not. With that code Unity is giving this error:
Assets/Game/Mods/PhysicalCombatFormulaBalancer.cs(420,37): error CS1525: Unexpected symbol `Weapons'

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Ralzar
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Ralzar » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:04 am

Part of the problem you are runnin into here is that the condition value is split:

The file ItemTemplates.txt has the base condition values for items.

Then the ItemBuilder.cs has arrays to change the item stats based on material.
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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:18 pm

Ralzar wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:04 am
Part of the problem you are runnin into here is that the condition value is split:

The file ItemTemplates.txt has the base condition values for items.

Then the ItemBuilder.cs has arrays to change the item stats based on material.
Ah, I was not even aware there was a simple txt file with the information I need. I figured most of the numbers were being taken directly from the game-files in this case and somewhat obfuscated. I can just multiply the condition values myself based on whatever material value if that's the case and just do it that way, thanks for the heads-up there.

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Ralzar
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Ralzar » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:20 pm

I did some condition damage stuff for clothing in C&C.

Notice that it might be much simpler to cimply do condition damage as

conditionDamage = maxCondition / 10;

For example. Then it will adjust for the item and its material without you having to know the exact numbers.
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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:31 pm

Ralzar wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:20 pm
I did some condition damage stuff for clothing in C&C.

Notice that it might be much simpler to cimply do condition damage as

conditionDamage = maxCondition / 10;

For example. Then it will adjust for the item and its material without you having to know the exact numbers.
That's true, I did see that formula being used somewhere in the code I was looking through. I'm mostly wanting to know the values, once again, for "balancing" purposes. This probably seems OOT sort of detail for most people, but I got a bit of fascination with making it a thing as I was working on one of my modules. I want to have it so armor and to a lesser extent weapon material makes a big difference on how much condition damage an items takes, as well as POSSIBLY ability to hit/damage, that one is up in the air though.

Like I want daedric cutting weapon to utterly destroy far lesser materials, in terms of condition, like say an Iron Breastplate. Where as a steel claymore would deal very little damage to an orcish set of gloves, besides maybe some impact damage, possibly increasing those based on the strength of whatever attacker hit the piece of armor. I think you get where i'm going here, sort of OOT "Realism" maybe even to the point where none cutting weapons would not deal massive damage to armor condition, because it's not cutting it to ribbons, just smashing the person inside the armor pretty badly.

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Ralzar
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Ralzar » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:08 pm

An easier way to do that could be to just base it on material modifier.

weapon.GetWeaponMaterialModifier()

Scroll down to the material listing on this page:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Weapons
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Armor

If you do:

(WeaponMaterialModifier + 1) * 3

You'll get the armor modifier. Then you hae two numbers to easily compare for if they have matching "power" or not.

Edit: Dammit, I was wrong, the armor modifiers do not stick to a consistent system that matches 100% with weapon modifiers.
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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:18 pm

Yeah, I could definitely do it like that, probably will honestly, material mod is a pretty readily available number.

I wish that enemies actually wore the armor pieces they were holding, would make this have even more effect, but it seems the only thing that gets tracked is the weapon they are using. Maybe they do use armor if it's good enough, but most of it is worse than just their base stats, have not tested with a high level character though.

Edit: I may be wrong actually, I think enemies do ware armor that they are holding, it's just that you usually kill them before hitting whatever body part they have the armor equipped to, Good News Everyone!

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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:21 pm

Made a simple spread-sheet for all of the Armor and Weapon values, if anyone happens to look for this information in the future, maybe this will be helpful. Can't directly attach a .xlsx file unfortunately, so here are some pictures.


Max Condition Values for Armors
Max Condition Values for Armors
Armor_Conditions.JPG (182.76 KiB) Viewed 101 times

Max Condition Values for Weapons
Max Condition Values for Weapons
Weapon_Conditions.JPG (201.65 KiB) Viewed 64 times

Edit: Just realized I had two of the same picture posted before, fixed.
Last edited by Magicono43 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by mikeprichard » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:31 pm

FYI, item condition/durability is part of one of the remaining major edits I'd like to do to the UESP classic wiki pages (see also the topic at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2514), with a detailed discussion at various points, including in the open bug topic (relating to enchanting items, but also applicable here) starting at viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2584&p=31543#p31543. However, while my linked post just above seems to return the same values as are in your chart, Pango (master DFU developer) seemed to return different values - e.g. a Daedric cuirass max condition of 12000 instead of 32768 (Cuirass base "hitPoints" of 4096 x (Daedric "conditionMultipliersByMaterial" of 32/4)) in the posts after that. I'm still unclear as to when exactly the 12000 value vs. the 32768 value would apply. In any case, I'd very much like to sort out the various UESP wiki pages (Armor, Weapons, Magical Items, Enchanting Items) once this is finally clearly resolved.

Also, your second table posted above is for Armors, not Weapons per the caption. I appreciate the work that's going into this research!

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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:50 pm

mikeprichard wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:31 pm
FYI, item condition/durability is part of one of the remaining major edits I'd like to do to the UESP classic wiki pages (see also the topic at viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2514), with a detailed discussion at various points, including in the open bug topic (relating to enchanting items, but also applicable here) starting at viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2584&p=31543#p31543. However, while my linked post just above seems to return the same values as are in your chart, Pango (master DFU developer) seemed to return different values - e.g. a Daedric cuirass max condition of 12000 instead of 32768 (Cuirass base "hitPoints" of 4096 x (Daedric "conditionMultipliersByMaterial" of 32/4)) in the posts after that. I'm still unclear as to when exactly the 12000 value vs. the 32768 value would apply. In any case, I'd very much like to sort out the various UESP wiki pages (Armor, Weapons, Magical Items, Enchanting Items) once this is finally clearly resolved.

Also, your second table posted above is for Armors, not Weapons per the caption. I appreciate the work that's going into this research!
Fixed the picture duplicates.

Yeah, I was thinking of adding these values to the UESP as well when I made it, but I honestly assumed that these values could be completely inaccurate to what the classic game actually had. I personally think the Daedric Cuirass having 32K durability points seemed a bit funky honestly, but it obviously makes sense if the base values are just being applied with the material modifier.

So I might be inclined to agree with Pango in that there might be a maximum value set like 12K or something, but I have no evidence to prove this at all, the only data I used was from noticing some patterns when testing various equipment in Daggerfall Unity and observing what their max values were returning as, which happened to be what my spreadsheet is representing, which was "Base Condition Value" as was listed in the .txt file that held this information for each item type, then multiply that value based on what was being returned for each material.

Strangely enough, even though Mithril and Adamantium have the same modifiers in most regards, Adamantium has one "tier" more durability as it's blue brother, for whatever reason, so there are obviously some numbers going on behind the code that are not just straight material modifier numbers, which makes me think my numbers are only accurate for Daggerfall Unity, potentially not at all close to Classic values.

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