Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

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Hazelnut
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:03 pm

Your sheets have silver incorrect, it has a 1.5 multiplier.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:52 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:03 pm
Your sheets have silver incorrect, it has a 1.5 multiplier.
Maybe that gets rounded down to the nearest zero? Cause some testing seems to show that silver just has the base condition value like the other lesser materials.
Iron Longsword.JPG
Iron Longsword.JPG (15.84 KiB) Viewed 141 times
Silver Longsword.JPG
Silver Longsword.JPG (15.79 KiB) Viewed 141 times
Leather Cuirass.JPG
Leather Cuirass.JPG (15.2 KiB) Viewed 141 times

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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:53 pm

Continued...
Silver Cuirass.JPG
Silver Cuirass.JPG (16 KiB) Viewed 141 times
Leather Kite Shield.JPG
Leather Kite Shield.JPG (16.71 KiB) Viewed 141 times
Silver Kite Shield.JPG
Silver Kite Shield.JPG (15.53 KiB) Viewed 141 times

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Hazelnut
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:51 pm

Confirmed, and fixed. Also I've been testing item conditions in classic and using DFHack to inspect the values. Seems steel is supposed to be 1.5x like silver so unless anyone can prove Allofich was correct to have this the same as Iron and 1x multiple then I will change this as well.

Regarding the earlier discussion, from what i can see a Daedric Cuirass has 32768 (4096 x 8) max condition in classic and DFU matches this.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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Magicono43
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Magicono43 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:08 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:51 pm
Confirmed, and fixed. Also I've been testing item conditions in classic and using DFHack to inspect the values. Seems steel is supposed to be 1.5x like silver so unless anyone can prove Allofich was correct to have this the same as Iron and 1x multiple then I will change this as well.

Regarding the earlier discussion, from what i can see a Daedric Cuirass has 32768 (4096 x 8) max condition in classic and DFU matches this.
I think I see what was meant by the daedric cuirass having 12000 durability, apparently if you get an already enchanted piece of equipment from a quest or something, the durability of said item is different than it's default value if it was not already enchanted, at least that's what Pango found when testing an Orc Strength enchanted Daedric Cuirass.

I'll try and remember to update my chart values for steel and silver once those changes go into a live build.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by mikeprichard » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:09 pm

Thank you both for the further info and confirmations from classic. I now think the 12000 vs. 32768 question, as you noted, was previously resolved, and I may just need to edit https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Mag ... ical_Items to make it clearer that the table there refers only to certain magical items. That said, I still have some questions on this (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2584&start=50#p34888) that have yet to be answered - in fact, that linked bug report won't be resolved until they are. I don't have the time and energy right now to finally get into this and the other UESP pages that will need expansion/clarification, but I'm pinning this discussion to my UESP topic for future reference. Cheers!

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Hazelnut
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:38 pm

No problem Mike. I just did an enchant in classic of a Daedric pauldron and it's condition max was unchanged. Not sure where the UESP info is from, but it seems to be bogus. Although having said that maybe someone else should confirm before we write it off completely.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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mikeprichard
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by mikeprichard » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:21 pm

Wow, that was fast! I think what may be happening is Pango's test cuirass in that bug topic (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2584&start=20#p34644) was an enchanted item he found as loot, a quest reward, or at a magic item merchant, rather than an item he enchanted himself as you did with your cuirass. In the former case, I vaguely remember (but can't find right now) indications that enchanted items found as loot, quest rewards, or at magic item merchants in fact have the durability values shown in that UESP table (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Mag ... ical_Items), while other equipment including non-enchanted and Item Maker-enchanted equipment may have the much higher durability values we've been seeing here. That would be in line with the general haphazard/"quirky" mechanics of classic, and also explain where the DaggerD data Pango posted comes from. However, I can't yet find any support in the DFU code at least for where the "12000" Daedric example of Pango's may have come from as shown in DaggerD, and it's possible that the "Max" (durability) data (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2584&start=40#p34675) shown in that program are in fact completely bogus (e.g. an Amber crystal is listed as having 144 enchantment points, when Amber should have 400 per the confirmed data at https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Enc ... cellaneous), and your DFHack testing is more reliable.

This is all wrapped into the unresolved item 1) in my bug report post (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2584&start=50#p34888), but your confirmation in classic here is definitely helpful. If Pango or someone else who might have other insights could weigh in at some point, that'd be great as well.

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Hazelnut
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by Hazelnut » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:30 pm

Yeah that's it. DFU does use the 'uses' to set condition on found magic items so you get a set amount of use which appears to always be 1500 regardless. However this doesn't apply to stuff you enchant yourself. Still puzzled where 12,000 comes from though because DFU code doesn't appear give the material bonus looking at the generation code ordering... it gets overridden by the 1500.

If someone can provide a classic save with a found armor piece (or weapon would prob be ok) that's magical and is Steel or higher I can confirm this and fix it, thanks.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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mikeprichard
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Re: Getting Weapon and Armor Maximum Condition Values

Post by mikeprichard » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:36 pm

Hazelnut wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:30 pm
Yeah that's it. DFU does use the 'uses' to set condition on found magic items so you get a set amount of use which appears to always be 1500 regardless. However this doesn't apply to stuff you enchant yourself. Still puzzled where 12,000 comes from though because DFU code doesn't appear give the material bonus looking at the generation code ordering... it gets overridden by the 1500.

If someone can provide a classic save with a found armor piece (or weapon would prob be ok) that's magical and is Steel or higher I can confirm this and fix it, thanks.
This is a wild guess, but looking again at https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Mag ... ical_Items, I see that, as you say, "any magical item other than weapons and armors, as well as all artifacts (including artifact weapons and armors, and with the sole exception of the Oghma Infinium, which has only one point of health and will therefore vanish after it is used) always has a starting health of 1500." What may be happening is this base value of 1500 is in fact used as the starting base hit points for all found magical items and artifacts - including weapons and armors, but still excluding Item Maker items - which in the case of found magical weapons and armors only is then multiplied by the material modifiers. This would perfectly explain the values in the UESP table in that section and Pango's example, including the 12000 for a Daedric found magical item. E.g. Pango's supposed found enchanted Daedric cuirass would in fact have a durability of 1500 (base) x 32/4 (material modifier) = 12000. Meanwhile, an unenchanted or Item Maker-enchanted Daedric cuirass would have a durability of 4096 (base) x 32/4 (material modifier) = 32768, as already confirmed. Have I cracked it, or am I just cracked?

EDIT: There would still be one inconsistency at least with DFU code - DFU has the steel material durability modifier as 4/4 = 1 (same as iron) (see https://github.com/Interkarma/daggerfal ... Builder.cs, line 50), but the above-linked UESP table has steel as 6/4 = 1.5 (same as silver). I guess this is another thing to test in classic in case this is a minor DFU bug.
(I just independently found a bug you'd already identified a few posts up... never mind!)

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