Effect System Roadmap Checkup

Discuss coding questions, pull requests, and implementation details.
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pango
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Re: Effect System Roadmap Checkup

Post by pango »

There's some weirdness around Dispel undead effect (Dispel Daedra being similar) and the circinate spells Holy Touch and Holy Word based on that effect. To be perfectly clear it seems to match classic exactly; I'm just wondering if this should be considered a bug and fixed.
  • When creating a custom spell based on dispel undead or dispel daedra effects, the only possible target is "caster only";
  • However Holy Touch is a dispel undead on touch spell and Holy Word is a dispel undead around caster spell;
  • No matter what target you choose, the effective target of that effect is an area around caster;
  • However Holy Word is twice as costly as Holy Touch.
Could distinct targets (at least "on touch" and "area around caster") be implemented?
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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Kab the Bird Ranger
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Re: Effect System Roadmap Checkup

Post by Kab the Bird Ranger »

I'd like to see this fixed, but I don't see a way to do it without breaking players who rely on the effect right now.

If we fix all of those, and we properly reflect so that using on Caster has no effect, then those players will have a dead spell in their spellbook. If they want to get back that spell back, they'll have to get the more expensive area effect. Or settle for the Touch / ranged version

Maybe it's not so bad.

If we fix this, I'd probably disable Caster as a possible target to avoid confusion, and allow all the others.

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pango
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Re: Effect System Roadmap Checkup

Post by pango »

Other effects, say Damage Health, allow all targets but caster; "on touch" seems to be the default target for spells based on such effects.

If Dispel undead effect is changed that way, and DFU only allowed "on caster" target so far, then Dispel undead effects used so far would become an impossible case and it should be possible to change the target to "area around caster" during game loading, to ensure a smooth transition with minimal surprizes.
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

yabay
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Re: Effect System Roadmap Checkup

Post by yabay »

pango wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:38 am There's some weirdness around Dispel undead effect
It would be nice if the effect of Dispel Daedra and Dispel Undead were excluded from "Caster only" in spellmaker (Or, opponents would have added resistance to these effects, similar to the Pacify effect.). But on the other hand, Undead and Daedra have a 100% savethrow against Invisibility, so this should be balanced by a 0% savethrow against Dispel. Oh, I've been playing DF for a long time, and I'm still discovering a new understanding of the game mechanics.

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