Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

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mikeprichard
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by mikeprichard » Sun May 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Yep, clothing and miscellaneous items as well as armor/shields/(I think even) weapons can be enchanted with the "Strengthens Armor" and "Weakens Armor" enchantments, which should respectively add/remove 5 points to/from total armor class when the enchanted item is equipped; the changed armor values should also display on the inventory paper doll. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Enchanting_Items

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Hazelnut
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by Hazelnut » Sun May 10, 2020 6:52 pm

But accessories don't go on the paperdoll, it's fine for anything that does - easy to know which armour value to buff, but with accessories... seems wtf to me.
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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mikeprichard
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by mikeprichard » Sun May 10, 2020 7:09 pm

A lot of things classic does are wtf, but this actually makes sense to me within the game's "logic" - you wear an enchanted ring/necklace/bracelet etc., and it places a magical shell around you to enhance your armor class. It's a simple +5 or -5 to armor class for all body parts (for the Strengthens or Weakens Armor enchantment). I can think of plenty of things that are a lot stranger than this in Daggerfall game mechanics. In any case, this is certainly how it works in classic - there's no division between miscellaneous items vs. clothes/armor when it comes to which enchantments can be applied and effective.

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Hazelnut
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by Hazelnut » Sun May 10, 2020 9:12 pm

So if you wear an enchanted helmet it helps protect your feet? Wow, much stronger enchantment than I always assumed it was then. :)
See my mod code for examples of how to change various aspects of DFU: https://github.com/ajrb/dfunity-mods

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mikeprichard
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by mikeprichard » Sun May 10, 2020 9:32 pm

You got it - in true Elder Scrolls/CRPG style!

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mikeprichard
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by mikeprichard » Mon May 11, 2020 5:24 am

Since I have no idea how to read the code, I'd appreciate a quick confirmation: it's known that the armor values displayed on the inventory paper doll for unenchanted armor are in fact only 1/5 of the actual values used in game calculations to determine whether you're hit by an opponent. Does the same apply for these two enchantments, such that they "actually" provide +25 and -25 to the game's to-hit formula behind the scenes? Or only in the case of these two enchantments, do the +5 and -5 really mean +5 and -5 to the formula as well?

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Interkarma
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by Interkarma » Mon May 11, 2020 6:40 am

At this time Strengthens/Weakens Armor enchantments are passed to both formula and paper doll as +5/-5. To break it down more:

Strengthens Armor modifies the CalculateArmorToHit() formula by -5 when entity is struck. At formula level, a lower armour number is better.

A base Daedric Cuirass has -5 armour rating at formula level. With Strengthens Armor this will come out to -10.

What's shown on the paper doll is (100 - armorValue) / 5. So that same Daedric Cuirass is (100 - -5) / 5 = 21. Strengthens Armor provides a +5 to all slots, so will display as 26 the chest slot.

Forgiving my errors with inverting numbers earlier, this is my understanding of the effect. I agree the effect has an incongruous output on paper doll. But I don't see this enchantment as a single "armour item buff" anyway. It doesn't just buff the item it's enchanted on. It's more of an "armour aura" that protects whole body and buffs all armour slots equally when active.

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mikeprichard
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by mikeprichard » Mon May 11, 2020 3:41 pm

Thanks, Interkarma; as I also posted above, the enchantment providing a "shell"/"aura" around your character was my conception as well.

Re: the enchantment's flat 5-point contribution to the formula, I assume this is how it works in classic, but if not, it should; otherwise, the enchantment would replicate a full Daedric armor rating from simply wearing one enchanted item, which would be insanely overpowered.

Re: the UI display, to be accurate and internally consistent, ideally Daedric armor would display as 105 without a Strengthens Armor enchantment and 110 with the enchantment (matching the formula), or as 21 without and 22 with (matching the classic display which effectively shows 1/5 of the formula values). However, I completely understand this would diverge from the classic UI values for base armor and/or the enchantment and cause confusion, at least for classic veterans. So, it's all good!


EDIT: I'm confused again, sorry... please see my next post below.
Last edited by mikeprichard on Mon May 11, 2020 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pango
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by pango » Mon May 11, 2020 3:44 pm

Maybe they could be displayed in cyan to show they're buffed?
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
-- Charles Goodhart

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mikeprichard
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Re: Strengthens/Weakens Armor bug fix?

Post by mikeprichard » Mon May 11, 2020 3:50 pm

Pango, the values with the enchantment should already show in a colored font (I think red?) - it was working this way as of 10.22.
Interkarma wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:40 am
A base Daedric Cuirass has -5 armour rating at formula level. With Strengthens Armor this will come out to -10.

What's shown on the paper doll is (100 - armorValue) / 5. So that same Daedric Cuirass is (100 - -5) / 5 = 21. Strengthens Armor provides a +5 to all slots, so will display as 26 the chest slot.
Buuut I think I'm totally confused now (not uncommon for me) after rereading the above post. Per Allofich's reverse engineering (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1662&p=19058#p19115), base Daedric armor actually would factor 105 into the game's to-hit formulas, which is displayed as 21 on the paper doll, but Interkarma, are you saying in the first paragraph above that DFU currently only applies 5 instead of 105 for base Daedric armor in the formula? I also don't understand why you mention in the first paragraph above that both Strengthens Armor and Daedric base armor factor -5 in the formula, whereas in the second paragraph above you note Strengthens Armor will display only +5 compared to Daedric base armor's displayed +21 on the paper doll. I must be misreading this.

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