Quest format questions

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BansheeXYZ
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Quest format questions

Post by BansheeXYZ » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:55 pm

So I'm reading the quest files and finding them line-heavy and hard to read. Was it ever considered that classic's way of creating manually defined line breaks be done away with? I guess I don't see their value atm. (Note that I'm only referring to the fake-a-margin line breaks, not paragraph breaks, which will still need a <br> tag or something.) Can we not automatically center and wrap based on a fixed margin?

I mean, imagine making an edit or insertion on the 2nd line of a 10 line paragraph, and the next 8 lines then need to be edited as well because of the margin overflow you caused with that insertion. It just seems ridiculous that anyone writing a quest file would need to carefully manage their own margins like this.

Also, there are <ce> and <---> tags everywhere due to this. If the end of the line could serve as the end of the response variant, it would look much better. And you wouldn't have to worry about a missing tag or something. There's just more room for error here with all these tags and indents and manual margins.

In other words, this:

Code: Select all

QuestorOffer:  [1000]
<ce>                     My name is _questgiver_. Can
<ce>                   you help me find my friend? I can
<ce>                       only pay you _gold_ gold.
                                     <--->
<ce>               Please help me. My friend _missingperson_
<ce>               is missing. I am afraid that %g might have
<ce>                 been hurt. I will pay you _gold_ gold
<ce>                        pieces if you find %g2.

RefuseQuest:  [1001]
<ce>             Good day, %ra. I will look for someone else.
                                     <--->
<ce>                     Is no-one willing to help me?
                                     <--->
<ce>                     A thousand pardons. I mistook
<ce>                      you for a heroic adventurer.
vs this:

Code: Select all

[1000][QuestorOffer_to_Player]
My name is _questgiver_. Can you help me find my friend? I can only pay you _gold_ gold.
Please help me. My friend _missingperson is missing. I am afraid that %g might have been hurt. I will pay you _gold_ gold  pieces if you find %g2.

[1001][QuestorResponse_to_PlayerRefusing]
Good day, %ra. I will look for someone else.
Is no-one willing to help me?
A thousand pardons. I mistook you for a heroic adventurer.

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Jay_H
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: Quest format questions

Post by Jay_H » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:01 pm

There are times when it's preferable not to center text, like with a letter or other written document in-game. But what you've described is accurate:
I mean, imagine making an edit or insertion on the 2nd line of a 10 line paragraph, and the next 8 lines then need to be edited as well because of the margin overflow you caused with that insertion. It just seems ridiculous that anyone writing a quest file would need to carefully manage their own margins like this.
A problem further out on the horizon is resolutions. If you put too much text on one line in the current iteration, it'll go beyond the screen boundaries for a very small resolution.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.
Progress on fixing classic quests here.

BansheeXYZ
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Re: Quest format questions

Post by BansheeXYZ » Wed May 01, 2019 5:03 am

Jay_H wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:01 pm
There are times when it's preferable not to center text, like with a letter or other written document in-game. But what you've described is accurate
Yep, only dialog boxes get centered. However, every text group in quest files is preceded by a number, so, for example, log entries are [1020], DFU knows to left align that based on where it's going to presented. So it doesn't appear that we need the quest file to be full of alignment tags like <center> and stuff. Is that what the <ce> tag is, a centering tag?

Seems like the only reason to not change is to break up text in exactly the same places as classic, but to me, text is text. It's going to read the same regardless of where the linebreaks are.

Whose program is exporting these files from their original QBN/QRC?

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Jay_H
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 am

Re: Quest format questions

Post by Jay_H » Wed May 01, 2019 6:18 am

As far as I know, Interkarma wrote the extraction program.

I like the idea of having text blocks decide the centering or not. You're right: <ce> means a line of centered text. Having it decided all by paragraphs would be quite useful.

If your idea were engineered, it would have to find compatibility with the existing classic quests which all use <ce> tags.
Come join the Unofficial Daggerfall Unity Discord.
See the Daggerfall Unity Wiki on the UESP.
Progress on fixing classic quests here.

BansheeXYZ
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Re: Quest format questions

Post by BansheeXYZ » Wed May 01, 2019 9:39 am

Jay_H wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 6:18 am
If your idea were engineered, it would have to find compatibility with the existing classic quests which all use <ce> tags.
What would have to happen is to decide on a fixed message box width (out of 200px). Classic tends to be about 125px. You could probably offer a range setting in the ini file of 100 to 150.

BansheeXYZ
Posts: 472
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:19 pm

Re: Quest format questions

Post by BansheeXYZ » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:46 am

Thems some good ol margins there, classic...
logmrgn.png
logmrgn.png (23.06 KiB) Viewed 226 times

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