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Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:20 pm
by Jay_H
Daggerfall Unity's support for other languages of Daggerfall is very suspect. The files won't link up like they're supposed to. It'll be better to do direct translation on DFU instead of translating DF and then imposing DFU.

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:08 pm
by pango
Hi Cristalnoir,
A french contributor here, and I'm just starting to find my way around Daggefall Unity sources, so I will probably get some things wrong :oops:

Most of the time Daggerfall Unity does not take text resources from the underlying Daggerfall setup.
See HardStrings.cs for all the strings that used to be hardcoded into the executable, and of course the text format quests used instead of the original compiled ones. They're exceptions, for example books are read from Daggerfall classic. And some texts are embedded into graphics (for example dialog boxen) and will be imported from classic, unless that graphic is modded DFU-side. I'm probably missing cases.

Translation support is planned for Alpha stage according to the roadmap, and will require externalizing all texts using TextManager.cs I assume, and then add the possibility to switch between text databases. And use some library (like gettext?) to specify plural forms, those kinds of grammar hints.

So work needs to be done before Daggerfall Unity translation can start.
The good news is that, with program sources and Unicode, translation should then be more flexibility and comfortable than ever.

Moddable interface with variable spaced fonts would benefit languages more verbose than english (including french, but some languages are way more verbose), but looks like a lot of work, and is definitely not a goal for 1.0 release.

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:32 pm
by Hazelnut
I think the spanish translation effort is the most advanced, IIRC they have already done many images & quests.

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:50 pm
by pango
Translating texts directly in quest files is not without merits (it's simple, for one), but has its own faults.
For example, the change you made to all the quests giving you maps? Now that will have to be ported to each translation...

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:24 pm
by Cristalnoir
I thought that DFU was reading the files from the DF folder, but not for everything. We will have to be patient.
I am finishing a French interface of image files in French, it will soon be available on this forum.

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:04 pm
by pango
Externalizing strings looks like a lot of grunt work.
With clear general instructions, I'm sure contributors with some dev skills (myself or otherwise) could work on that before Alpha stage is reached, without taking precious time of main devs.

I assume strings used in interfaces that are currently directly in the sources (in HardStrings or just literal strings) should be replaced by lookups using TextManager; I kinda remember seeing older string lookup class(es) that need to be phased out, but it's a bit fuzzy.
I'd like confirmation before spending time on the wrong task...

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:43 pm
by TheLacus
Not sure if you are aware, but a lot of strings are already exposed with the Text folder.

HardStrings contains arrays of strings which are not supported by csv format so is not as simple. I think these fields could be implemented as [a, b, c] or even reusing literals support for "a, b, c" but Interkarma may have a better idea. I believe end of line is also an issue so every row must be on a single line. Some single strings could be already exposed tough.

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:03 pm
by pango
TheLacus wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:43 pm
Not sure if you are aware, but a lot of strings are already exposed with the Text folder.
Yes, my "all texts" link points to Text folder in github.
A lot are, the point is to externalize the remaining ones so that everything can be translated
TheLacus wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:43 pm
HardStrings contains arrays of strings which are not supported by csv format so is not as simple. I think these fields could be implemented as [a, b, c] or even reusing literals support for "a, b, c" but Interkarma may have a better idea. I believe end of line is also an issue so every row must be on a single line. Some single strings could be already exposed tough.
For structured data and control characters encoding I'd go for something standard, like JSON.
I've seen JSON being reinvented too many times ;)

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:14 pm
by Hazelnut
I thought Interkarma intended for the text files in StreamingAssets/Text to eventually replace HardStrings.cs, but maybe I am wrong.

Re: [DFUnity/Classic] French Translation

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:26 pm
by Deepfighter
Hazelnut wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:32 pm
I think the spanish translation effort is the most advanced, IIRC they have already done many images & quests.
Have to correct you here a bit. :) At least if we look at Classic Daggerfall, too. The most advanced Daggerfall translation is the French version (99% complete), followed by the German (70%), Spanish, Italian and then Russian translation. Regarding the porting/retranslation of these translations to DFUnity you may be right that the Spanish translation took the most effort so far.

At least for the German version I can say that I still wait until everything is put in place for really translating/porting everything (Interkarma may give the go!). The porting process itself is probably simple C&P work. I would recommend that for everyone else, too. We don't know what happens until the final DFUnity version regarding file handling and accessing. If you are to hasty, then this could lead to much redundant work. Just saying...