hey thanks for your well-formulated and constructive criticism!
ifkopifko wrote:
If I understood the previous posts, the original vanilla DaggerFall does not use the altitude map at all. I remember the game being very flat actually, the terrain structure horrible.
Vanilla daggerfall seems to only use the noise map (which seems to be a high resolution version of the altitude map - 5 times as detailed - with 5x5 pixels for every pixel in the altitude map - the upper left pixel of this 5x5 grid is always equal to the corresponding altitude map pixel.
Vanilla daggerfall uses the height information of the noise map but the scale used for heights is so small that there are almost no spots in the world were one can spot real terrain elevations...
ifkopifko wrote:
It seems to me that you are trying to invent functions and algorithms to sensibly interpret this altitude map, but why are you holding on to this original map at all? Maybe that the reason it has never been used is because it is a flawed design to begin with. And thus, it needs to be redesigned… maybe from scratch.
It is not completely broken, there are though several issues with it.
ifkopifko wrote:
I have no idea whether it is realistic to redesign the altitude map, how much work is needed to do that. I also understand that you are trying to hold on to the original DaggerFall as much as you can, but hey, it was not such a great game, there is so much that can/must be improved.
Yeah I would like to use the original files for these reasons:
-) the original Daggerfall Designers put some thoughts into it - I don't want to ignore their intends completely
-) extra Heightmap data can take up a bit of disk space (it is not that much, but in terms of a web-build this can be an important point)
-) I don't want to use any form of random number generation - the world should always be exactly the same and reproducible from data
-) switching to a better version of the heightmap should be possible (but optional ) in the future.
ifkopifko wrote:
DaggerFall always fascinated me because of the sheer vastness of the world, but surely you are not going to argue, that the DF world was empty and dull.
yeah it was, but limited view distance and boring terrain supported this even more
ifkopifko wrote:
All in all, it seems to me, that you are aiming to create a completely different DaggerFall (which is fine with me), so holding on to the original designs is not always going to work anyway.
it is also kind of a challenge - I am having fun when messing around with this stuff
ifkopifko wrote:
My conclusion: If you want realistic terrain, you must ditch the original height map, and start anew. Or, you can make a compromise and just correct the worst parts of the height map and be content, that the terrain is not going to look realistic. Let’s face it, the DF world is huge and varies greatly, from deserts, swamps to mountains. It also does not have any rivers or inland water surfaces, so making it realistic is a long and difficult road. (I’d say impossible, but I do not like that word.)
Cheers!
I disagree to a certain point. The recent approach for improving the original height map does start to look decent in my opinion
to a small degree I would say a bit of more realistic
The good thing is that all of these projects/improvements to the dftfu toolset are optional. One can always build a version without them
I think I have to post some improved terrain heighmap screenshots from the scene view soon...