Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

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NoobioDF
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by NoobioDF » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:30 am

Hi. Forgive me please for perhaps coming across a bit frustrated, as I have read the whole thread, and still am not sure how to install this.

This part is completely clear:

"2. Place the WA01-WAQ04 files into your "/quest/" folder
2. All finished, start a new character and it will activate"

But this line can be interpreted tens of ways:

"1. Extract the files into your "StreamingAssets/QuestPacks" folder"

No wonder questions have been asked multiple times in this thread about what it means.

A) The first question is do you want us to include the folder nesting of "extracting files" from such an archive?
b) The second question is do we put all the files including WA01-WAQ04 ...
OR ... do we put only the other text files ...
OR ... do we put all the files including the text file

etc. Lots of possible combinations to test via trial and error. Since I don't know the modding structure of Daggerfall Unity or Daggerfall, hard to figure out.

WHAT I HAD TRIED:

I put WA01-WAQ04 in both the QUESTPACKS folder and the QUESTS folder. But I did not try to keep the nesting of folders from extraction.

It would be simplest if someone just showed the complete file structure and what does where of all the files in both folders. That would solve the problem for me.

I also had done the same with the Wilderness Encounters.

C) Do I need to keep the KAMER folder and its subfolders like WAQ-3-WILDERNESS and then beneath that WAQ-CORE. I get the feeling NOW that I did not need to do that (and I had not). But I have duplicate files in both the QUEST and the QUESTPACKS folder. I think that what is needed is probably just the QuestList .txt files for each quest in the QUESTPACKS Folder. However, it might also require the various folder structures. I could not tell from the syntax of the various .txt files for the quests where they needed to look.

Would much appreciate knowing exactly which files go where and in what folders. Do I need a Kamer folder under QUESTPACKS? TO I NEED A WAQ-3-WILDERNESS subfolder there? Do I need the WAQ-CORE folder nested as a further sub-folder, and each of these with all the contents?

Takes so many words to explain the obvious question. I will continue to fool with it, but at the moment I got the same error someone else mentioned -- twice the questions asked and then there was no name for the enemy, it was clearly showing the blank parameter field for the name instead. So that means the quest is missing info, or unable to find the resource it needs for the name of the enemy or NPC, so I must have it installed incorrectly.

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Jay_H
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by Jay_H » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:26 am

Welcome to the forums :)

Since I feel like this question's going to come up often, I'm going to explain it in depth.

1. Locate the files.

Enter the Warm Ashes zip, at this point:

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2. Extract the files to the path shown in the screenshot.

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If done properly, the end result will be this:

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3a. Start a new character. The game will automatically detect Warm Ashes and offer to begin it.

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You can verify this by using Shift-Tab to see it in the active quests.

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3b. Load an existing character.
3b1. Copy the file WAQ05.txt into /DaggerfallUnity_Data/StreamingAssets/Quests,

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3b2. In the game console (~ key), type the command "startquest WAQ05" and press Enter.

Image

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Warm Ashes will detect the files and offer to begin.

Image

I just ran through these steps myself, and documented how I did them.
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NoobioDF
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by NoobioDF » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:14 am

@ Jay_H

Ok, that was very helpful. So now I've put the entirety of the KAMER and subfolders into the QUESTPACKS folder of DaggerfallUnity/StreamingAssets etc.

I've done about the same procedure for the Wilderness Encounters.

For the DaggerfallUnity/StreamingAssets/Quests folder, I've just put the WAQ01 thru 04 txt files. And then for the Wilderness Encounters I'm working on the directions there to do similar as the procedure here.

You said something interesting though. From your example, the WAQ05 file is just for using on an existing character, which you load thru the console.

Ok, so to see if I fully understand. Basically in the QUESTPACKS folder, I'm going to have the KAMER folder and all contents as nested for each of the downloads put there. They have a slightly different structure, Wilderness Encounters has subfolders within subfolders, with a WAQ-3-Wilderness, then WAQ-CORE, then a series of quest txt files under that. WAQ00.txt seems the key one, probably would be the one to run on an existing character, or runs as the starting initializer in a new game. Then there are different other txt files, like for Highwaymen etc.

So the one question I think I have left, is what files do I put in the Quests folder for Wilderness Encounters (QUESTPACKS is all of them as in the zip from KAMER folder on downwards as you showed)? It looks like it is either just the WAQ00.txt or it and all the other various quests.txt's like WAQ_BANDITS.TXT. I've currently got all of them in there, but I'm getting the feeling I maybe should just have the WAQ00.txt file for the Wilderness Encounters portion, and not the varoius ones like WAQ_BANDITS.TXT in the QUESTS folder of Daggerfall Unity.

Appreciate your effort. I'll start up a new character and then do the SHIFT TAB thing as well to see what's running in memory for Daggerfall Unity as active.

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Jay_H
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by Jay_H » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:43 pm

NoobioDF wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:14 am
You said something interesting though. From your example, the WAQ05 file is just for using on an existing character, which you load thru the console.
Not exactly. If you open the Warm Ashes V2 quest list, you'll see these contents.

Code: Select all

schema: *name, group, membership, minReq, flag, notes

WAQ05, InitAtGameStart, M, 0, 0, Init WA quests
WAQ01, Commoner, P, 0, 0, a Warm Ashes component
WAQ02, Commoner, P, 0, 0, a Warm Ashes component
WAQ03, Commoner, P, 0, 0, a Warm Ashes component
WAQ04, Commoner, P, 0, 0, a Warm Ashes component
WAQ05 has the flag "InitAtGameStart." This means that, if it's found in a QuestPacks folder when you create a new character, it'll automatically be detected. There is no such mechanism for existing characters.

Existing characters have to use a console command to start WAQ05, but the console command doesn't recognize quests inside the QuestPacks area. The quest needs to be in the Quests folder for that to happen.
So the one question I think I have left, is what files do I put in the Quests folder for Wilderness Encounters (QUESTPACKS is all of them as in the zip from KAMER folder on downwards as you showed)? It looks like it is either just the WAQ00.txt or it and all the other various quests.txt's like WAQ_BANDITS.TXT. I've currently got all of them in there, but I'm getting the feeling I maybe should just have the WAQ00.txt file for the Wilderness Encounters portion, and not the varoius ones like WAQ_BANDITS.TXT in the QUESTS folder of Daggerfall Unity.
WAQ00 in Wilderness Encounters is analogous to WAQ05 in Warm Ashes V2. If you're going to start it on an existing character, you need to move it over to Quests. If it's for a new character, the game will detect it upon character creation. So the same steps for Warm Ashes V2 should apply for Wilderness Encounters; extract the contents into the QuestPacks folder, and it should create a functional branch /QuestPacks/Kamer/WAQ-3-Wilderness/WAQ-Core/.
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NoobioDF
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by NoobioDF » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:39 am

@ Jay_H

Thanks very much for another detailed reply. What I have done up to now seems to avoid any obvious errors. It just takes a bit long to come up, which is probably preparation and loading, and it does inform about the modules twice, which is probably once for the Warm Ashes and then again for Warm Ashes initializing Wilderness Encounters.

Thanks for explaining more about how it would work for Wilderness Encounters on a existing character. So, it seems that the idea is that the QuestPacks provide all the quests and resources, and the stuff in quests (provided you have a QuestPacks entry for those quests in the right form) is the initializer quest that calls and activates the QuestPack for that quest.

Ok. So that probably means that those singular quest.txts in the Quests folder are one of two possible types. If they have no corresponding QuestPacks entry, then they probably are just fed into the basic quest choosing system of Daggerfall itself, which it then randomly initializes as the game moves forward. This would explain why no QuestPack is required for those. It also explains the similar names and numbers in their name, probably selected by the type of quest the game calls, and then picking a random number from the total number of that type of quest -- with the original Daggerfall Quest Engine. Makes sense.

If they have a corresponding QuestPacks entry, then they are initializers, that we can call by the console to start and initialize the quest which then makes the QuestPacks entry for it relevant and actively used. This would be something similar to other Elder Scrolls games.

Very interesting and helpful. Your explanation of how to read a Quest List Txt file, will aid me in understanding going forward. This is starting to be fun.

-----

I see you have a tutorial for Daggerfall Unity about Quests, I'm going to read more of it down the road. I guess I should try to find more about how Daggerfall (non-Unity) Quests work also.

If you have the time and don't mind recommending a starting point -- perhaps some forum or guide you once saw, I would appreciate the headstart.
-----

Had an incredible reminder of Daggerfall's incredible quests (thru Daggerfall Unity play last night). Been so long since I played I had forgotten if this is from a standard quest or not. Here is what happened. I happened to talk to somebody in an Inn last night in the city right near Privateer's Hold, I had just escaped the starting dungeon and decided not to go all the way to Daggerfall, to save money and time. Anyway, I talk to her and she mentions a particular individual needs help. I go to that other Inn, see him, talk to him, and surprise -- he's not what his name said, he's an Orc Shaman in disguise. He then boasts and threatens, is described as chanting, and I know it is time for my level 2 character to run. I just get out the door and then I am teleported off to another Dungeon. Have no idea where I am (but the log does mention the quest and the Orc character's name correctly saying I'll make him pay if I ever see him again and it does say the name of the Dungeon I'm teleported into). Meanwhile, I have no idea where the exit is, it is a pretty big dungeon and it a fair number of fairly dangerous foes (Harpies, Imps, various Human Classes) -- workable, but I'll die a lot as a old newbie trying to find my way out.

Outstanding sense of true fear and weakness, and glorious feeling of thinking the world has a lot more going on and threats than I had imagined. This is definitely not mere Skyrim, Oblivion, arguably not Morrowind either. Hard and terrifying, you betcha. But what a simple use of a dialog and the teleport function (or Move To function). Just amazing stuff. Not how I wanted it to start, but highly ingratiating me to my remembered power of this Daggerfall game. So much to do, so many factions in the Daggerfall Unity (with D.R.E.A.M. and Warm Ashes) which were all listed in Dialog options or in news from commoners etc. Love also that I could not join the Mages Guild right off. All the great stuff I remembered taken to the nth power.

Don't know if this is a standard Daggerfall quest, I think there were some like this. But all the added quests by people like yourself, on this great quest engine, it just adds so much to the awe inspiring sense of wonder in Daggerfall. Can only imagine how much you guys will be able to do down the road once Daggerfall Unity hits full release.

I see you have some optional quests files. I think I will go and add that as well. I'm going to try another New Game, but probably turn off all these quests until I get out of the Tutorial Dungeon and hit the first city. Then I'll activate all these.

Your Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1 is compatible with all these and similar in how to install and run. Anyway I'll check all that out.

Much appreciate your time in replying and even though the graphics still aren't that inspiring, the ability to play the game on the better graphics and re-experience this incredible classic with those key improvements, is just ... wow ... I'm speechless. It really shows how in some ways, devs and publishers have sort of missed the boat when they did not stick with much of Daggerfall's features. It's interface and implementation are often clunky (much better in DFU but still not modern), but so much to experience and so much says I am a nobody in a world with its own machinations. Just superb stuff.

Thanks for all you do. These posts really added to my enjoyment. I may decide to get into this DFU stuff more as I go. I'm really happy I joined the forum and got a chance to talk with you.

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Jay_H
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by Jay_H » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:49 am

NoobioDF wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:39 am
I see you have a tutorial for Daggerfall Unity about Quests, I'm going to read more of it down the road. I guess I should try to find more about how Daggerfall (non-Unity) Quests work also.

If you have the time and don't mind recommending a starting point -- perhaps some forum or guide you once saw, I would appreciate the headstart.
Daggerfall Unity quests use the same commands and resources as Daggerfall ones do; however, Daggerfall Unity adds more commands to make more things possible than Daggerfall can do. If you can write quests for Daggerfall Unity, you already know them for Daggerfall. The best part is that DFU uses simple .txt files instead of the QBN-QRC mix that DF requires.

The best existing guide is Donald Tipton's, which has some flaws but is the most comprehensive anyone's written yet.
Don't know if this is a standard Daggerfall quest, I think there were some like this.
Indeed it is.

Thanks for your compliments and encouragement. We hope Daggerfall Unity will become an immortal source of entertainment :)
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NoobioDF
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by NoobioDF » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:11 am

@ Jay_H

Wow, Donald Tipton's Guide is weighty. Thanks very much. I'm going to copy this now to start my education.

Ha, you found the right quest at UESP.net . I like that site much for the other Elder Scrolls games. I'll check their Daggerfall stuff out, thanks.

While reading the some of the thread on your Daggerfall Unity Quest Pack #1, I noticed some were talking about how it was easier to create quests because of DFU's new features. Simple .txt is definitely easier to follow than some crazy format. Sheesh, QRC definitely triggered some familiarity, even though I never made any Daggerfall Quests. Probably was part of the format to learn how to add the CompUSA special quest or add fan-made one's way back. Glad it is text only now.

This is great. Thanks for the quick reply. I have a lot of reading to do. DFU's more friendly approach and all the work you guys are doing modding it, plus the better look and usability, are really going to make people aware of what this sort of RPG can mean, for longevity and as an alternative. Thanks much. Time to customize this right. This really is so cool. I don't even mind much the dying. I'm getting better with my start characters each time also. You really can avoid much of the combat. That's where things like Warm Ashes and Wilderness Encounters really help to make you want to stand and find out. They announce their presence and then say things like "You have no business being here" or "Pay or die" in more verbose ways, and it really makes you want to take them on. Like who the heck do these guys think they are, then you look around and you see the green and grey, and you go .... oh brother. They could be tough as nails or not. But 3-4, that's a problem. I like how when I entered the Mages Guild they did not enter as well (but I'm not so sure that's going to be a guarantee in future). But they waited for me outside. Once I was in their longer and used another exit, then I lost them. Still was looking over my shoulder the whole time. Back to using some of my old climbing routine to look for the occasional enemy. Except, I met 3-4 groups of these already in a couple games. So I know it isn't just rare anymore. It's more like often enough to make you take precautions as you play. Awesome! With this variety, min-maxing isn't quite key anymore. Flexibility and a plan for any encounter are the main thing. You have to have the tools and the sense to know when to run or when to fight, and survive the early levels. But these additional quests add to all this. Very excited.

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Kamer
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by Kamer » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:53 pm

Jay_H wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:26 am
Welcome to the forums :)

Since I feel like this question's going to come up often, I'm going to explain it in depth.
I quoted you for the install instructions if you don't mind. This will probably help a lot of people.

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Jay_H
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by Jay_H » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:13 am

I was actually going to edit it in myself, so you've saved me some work :) Thanks Kamer.
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Progress on fixing classic quests here.

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Kamer
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Re: Warm Ashes: Dangerous Dungeon Exteriors

Post by Kamer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:13 pm

Warm Ashes Version 2.5

I didn't plan on updating this version at all but some things definitely were broken and Version 3 is still a little ways off.
I spent today to touch it up so people can enjoy it as flawlessly as possible until version 3 is finished.

WAQV2.5
---Random Encounters---
-Enemy count drastically cut down.

---Sieges have been fixed---

-There are only one call for reinforcements from the previous two.
-Enemy count drastically cut down.
-Hostile encounters will no longer give you an option to siege, will attack you on sight
-Enemies now spawn instantaneously
-The retreat mechanic has been removed for now. If you want to run away, just run away, no punishments.
-Money reward increased

WAQV3
---Wilderness Encounters---
-Night encounters are more frequent and dangerous
-Fixed issue of events happening on new characters in Privateers Hold
-Releasing both together in the same pack to avoid confusion.

Download: WarmAshesV2.5

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