Villager Immersion Overhaul

[Ah_Ftagn]

Well, it's not happening without the mod installed, and the arrests are happening just because I'm in eyeshot of guards, sometimes after just leaving the game idle after being arrested. So if it isn't an intend feature it's either a bug or an interaction with SOME other mod that touches guards.

Getting arrested without the mod after punching a guard in the face doesn't cause you to get charged with the same crime for simply existing without the mod... I can literally confirm that, and reproduce the lack of this behavior without VIO installed.

The easy way to check what the issue REALLY is, would be to use some method to clear all bounties in all provinces, save, exit, load that save, wander around town aimlessly in view of patrolling guards for a while, then if not arrested, commit an Assault and serve time before repeating this.

Wonder if there is a console command I can use?

Edit: I don't think this is a direct output of wanted level, but it should show how devoted I am to not committing assault on this character.
https://imgur.com/a/s1CPCDK

Keep in mind, this character is NEVER charged with assault when VIO5 is not installed, unless I actually hit someone with a fist or spell... then the guards immediately come, and I immediately reload the last save. So this is kind of a big issue for me.

I'm going to see if this happens on a brand new character, then I'm going to record a video of it happening and post the youtube link here if it does.

I'm not imagining this, nor making it up. I've done EXTENSIVE testing to determine where the fault is, and it ONLY occurs when VIO5 is installed. If the issue does not persist on a new character, perhaps a quest or toggle option to clear all global bounties may be warranted, as Daggerfall Unity doesn't seem to have a paycrimegold command.

--Edit 2: "clear_negativelegalrep" exists, but I don't see a command to affect wanted level seperately. I just input the command after loading the save file I kept for bug testing purposes, but it (of course) did no good. However, I DID allow myself to get arrested the second time in a row, pleaded not guilty (debating the case), got acquitted, then travelled to another province and returned to Tulune. This appears to have been enough to clear it as of yet, but I can't be certain unless I am able to get through a whole, fresh play session from that point without the problem happening again. I should note that when I did NOT combine getting arrested with leaving the province and returning, the problem occurred again anyway.

Edit 3: Loading the save after that, I was greeted with a guard right up next to me, just like I'd saved during (but after a brief delay for VIO5 to load). They did not immediately arrest me. So far I haven't a clue what caused this issue yet (Possibly it might be something to do with this not being a new character, will test) but I suggest letting yourself get arrested, then travelling back and forth to a province at the opposite end of the map from your current one if this happens to you. This seems to reset whatever caused the problem, including any extra qued assault charges.

Edit 4: Does not occur on new characters, cause still unknown, but fixed in my favorite character's existing save file now. Recommend adding the following notation to download pages for the mod:
===
"As with most mods that overhaul large portions of gameplay, It is recommended to make a new character when using this mod to avoid issues.

Unexpected, possibly repeating arrests (Due to unknown causes - possible previously unreported and player-unrecognized crimes OR unintended interactions with existing characters) may occur if you use this mod on a pre-existing character.

If you wish to use your a character from before downloading this mod, some success has been documented clearing qued arrest warrants by getting arrested within your current province, then travelling to another a far distance away and returning. Depending on the number of legitimately qued arrest warrents this may need to be done multiple times to be certain the character has a clean record again. If the resulting damage to reputation from these unexpected arrests is something you want to correct, there are console commands for that, to find them type "Help" in the game's cheat/dev console."

[Kamer]

1-Being Charged for Crime and Vanilla Guards
Okay lets get something right. Guards in vanilla Daggerfall don't go after player for minor crimes from what I remember. You'll be chased after when you do commit an assault for example but once you leave they no longer chase you but you will definitely have it on your record. If its on your record, VIO guards will react to your crime. It doesn't charge the player. Only reads the data of said player. The reason guards haven't caught you before the mod is likely that they don't have the reaction they do now. You can go city to city without knowing you've committed assault. Not with my mod.

2-Reputation Changes and How it Works
Reputation isn't a very good way of looking for this. You only lose rep from the initial charge of crime or repeat of the crime. VIO does NOT change reputation in any way. It is impossible for it to change reputation. It's impossible for it to charge for crime. I know this cause there is not a single line anywhere that changes those factors. That is 100% handled by DFU. If this is an issue, its an already exiting problem with DFU that VIO highlights. It could be a mod conflict. I really don't know without information.

3- City Gates being Open at Night
You mentioned before that Gates are broken. VIO also does not mess with how Gates function. It only reads the position of where gates are placed and places guards accordingly. I installed HandPaintedModels to fix another bug and as it turns out thats the issue. The wall model replacement breaks the Gate. That's also not related to VIO.


I pm'ed you before asking for your version of DFU mods and etc. I need real data before I can fix an issue I can't find. I've tested with the latest version of DFU as well. I can't recreate the apparent bugs. I need something I can actually look at. Save data would also help a bunch.

[Kamer]

Version 5.0.1 Update!





This version is to fix some bugs that were with vanilla release.
I also decided to throw a bit more features into the mix.

-Gate Guards will now react to player criminal activity.
-Both Human/Orc Guards have got buffs to make them tougher.
-- 150 Health points
--Level raised to 30
-Orcs respond to crime appropriately now.

*Bug Fixes*
-Wall Guards spawn properly with Hand Painted Model replacements.
-Orc Guards no longer attack the player when engaging with enemy.
-Disabled debug text
(Note that if you committed a crime they will still attack!)

Download

[Allerka]

If it's just going off of existing data, then I have to assume they're reacting to a previous incident. I've never been arrested in this playthrough. I know I've accidentally horse-trampled a villager once or twice before and managed to simply evade the guards and leave (in some cases I've immediately loaded my game, but I might have kept it at some point), and I had no idea it kept that data in my save file. The guards certainly never seemed to care before this, but now as soon as I walk near one, they give chase, regardless of which city of the country I'm in.

I do see in my SaveData file there's a record of Assault committed, which is what they're chasing me for. There's no record of when or where it happened. Actually, for that matter, criminal acts are supposed to be confined to the country they're committed in, right? I'm not sure how that works. But I've jumped around countries a bit, so I have to wonder if this has basically been following me for months of game time, heh. EDIT: Ahh, maybe not, I tried teleporting to a country I've never been to before, and the guards couldn't care less about me. Same deal with a country I had been to previously. I guess it just tracks the info for whatever country you're currently in?

So really, for me at least, this is less of a bug and more just unexpected behavior. I'll simply have to adjust my playstyle accordingly, I suppose. Side-note, it's kinda neat how guards have lanterns now and act as light sources.

[Kamer]

If it's just going off of existing data, then I have to assume they're reacting to a previous incident. I've never been arrested in this playthrough. I know I've accidentally horse-trampled a villager once or twice before and managed to simply evade the guards and leave (in some cases I've immediately loaded my game, but I might have kept it at some point), and I had no idea it kept that data in my save file. The guards certainly never seemed to care before this, but now as soon as I walk near one, they give chase, regardless of which city of the country I'm in.

I do see in my SaveData file there's a record of Assault committed, which is what they're chasing me for. There's no record of when or where it happened. Actually, for that matter, criminal acts are supposed to be confined to the country they're committed in, right? I'm not sure how that works. But I've jumped around countries a bit, so I have to wonder if this has basically been following me for months of game time, heh. EDIT: Ahh, maybe not, I tried teleporting to a country I've never been to before, and the guards couldn't care less about me. Same deal with a country I had been to previously. I guess it just tracks the info for whatever country you're currently in?

So really, for me at least, this is less of a bug and more just unexpected behavior. I'll simply have to adjust my playstyle accordingly, I suppose. Side-note, it's kinda neat how guards have lanterns now and act as light sources.

You aren't the first to be surprised by it. I've seen some live streamers surprised that guards are going after them for theft from the past. Also about the Assault not going away: Someone messaged me about it that it happened to them as well but that was before the new version of my mod was uploaded. They said it might be Tedious Travel. I have no idea but apparently its a rare bug thats been around.

[Ah_Ftagn]

Huh... Tedious travel does another dumb thing... I really wish the mod author would have just passed it on to someone else instead of just leaving it to rot on the vine with no further support. TBH, I've noticed it has some occasional wierd interactions with most random encounter mods too, including yours and the WIlderness encounters mod.

TBH, I do kind of find tedious travel annoying at times, and it doesn't exactly run well on my gen-8 core i7/RTX 2070 rig. I might just remove it entirely, now that there's a dedicated autorun button to replace the best feature of it.

Anyway, I'll check my DMs, I JUST saw the notification.

--Edit: The saves from the initial issue and further tests/methods to resolve the issue, are now enclosed with some other stuff that might help at least alleviate the possible causes or reduce players thinking X function or Y function is bugged.

I think it might be worth adding as a feature, for example, the clearing of crimes that the guards didn't react to/arrest you for without the mod the first time its installed for a character (IE, the savegame doesn't have the mod, excess crimes are wiped clean to avoid stuff the players forgot or didn't get notified about getting the characters in trouble unexpectedly, something is added to the save data to show that this was done, and the mod carries on as normal) in the long term, and how to remove the crime info in the short term on old characters. Plus something about Overhauls to large, frequently used game systems being best used on new characters in general.

[Ferital]

I just tested version 5.0.1, great work Kamer! I especially enjoy seeing Orc guards in Orsinium.

I encountered an issue though, my character was attacked by guards in Daggerfall for a crime there. Then he escaped and traveled to another country where he never went before, but was immediately attacked by local guards, with villagers fleeing all around. I double-checked with another character to be sure this was caused by VIO and indeed, it seems there is a problem there.

[Ralzar]

At this point Kamer, I think you either need to get your mod to clear the crime or DFU needs an update that takes care of it.

Maybe something like clearing the assault value when you transition to a new map pixel?

[Ferital]

At this point Kamer, I think you either need to get your mod to clear the crime or DFU needs an update that takes care of it.

Maybe something like clearing the assault value when you transition to a new map pixel?

Maybe the feature could be kept when staying in the same region, but the assault should definitely be cleared when moving to another kingdom.

[Kamer]

I just tested version 5.0.1, great work Kamer! I especially enjoy seeing Orc guards in Orsinium.

I encountered an issue though, my character was attacked by guards in Daggerfall for a crime there. Then he escaped and traveled to another country where he never went before, but was immediately attacked by local guards, with villagers fleeing all around. I double-checked with another character to be sure this was caused by VIO and indeed, it seems there is a problem there.

So crimes are charged just for one region? If thats been the case then that data has to be stored somewhere.