KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

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King of Worms
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms »

Hi MrFlibble, nice read and info, thank you

I agree that its all doable and maybe not as hard as it might see. I also agree theres so much room for increased variety of the mobs, just those different colours of hoods would make a huge difference. than my suggestions about different size of mobs, so u can have mini spiders, mini rats and contrary a big Boss type with 2x the size etc, count it all together and u have 10x the variety of game encounters..... But this part of extended modding is SO on hold :? - I (we) asked for it for years and now I think the task to push this thru is on someone else than me. All I can do at some point is to share my assets with someone who will be able to push it further, if the demand is for that move..

I think if the models are made, than creating sprites from them is relatively easy, esp if you use Spriter prog by MasonFace. I saw it produce sprites from a model alredy, only problem is, we have no models and Im not sure how far the model implementation has progressed in DFU in case of MOBs etc...

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MrFlibble
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by MrFlibble »

King of Worms wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 9:10 am I think if the models are made, than creating sprites from them is relatively easy, esp if you use Spriter prog by MasonFace. I saw it produce sprites from a model alredy, only problem is, we have no models and Im not sure how far the model implementation has progressed in DFU in case of MOBs etc...
Personally I'd still prefer sprites over models even if support for those were fully implemented; it would be more authentic to the source, and honestly from my experience with other similar projects (Hexen models in the Doomsday Engine and Duke Nukem 3D in EDuke32), character models that replace sprites tend to have a somewhat awkward look when they move around, as the animations had to match the original sprite animations (maybe that can be fixed of course). Also I suppose that using models for characters would up system requirements quite a bit.

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King of Worms
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms »

Agreed, I personally do not fancy the models at all. I like the sprites. Only models I enjoy are those made by Alexander Sig in his Handpainted models mod. His torches, lights etc are nice, even the lootpiles.

But 3d mobs, npcs etc? Not for me 😊

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carademono
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by carademono »

King of Worms wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 8:25 pm Agreed, I personally do not fancy the models at all. I like the sprites. Only models I enjoy are those made by Alexander Sig in his Handpainted models mod. His torches, lights etc are nice, even the lootpiles.

But 3d mobs, npcs etc? Not for me 😊
Totally agreed. If you want 3d models, why not just play practically any other game made in the last 25 years? 2d sprites in a 3d world is what makes Daggerfall, Daggerfall.

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RedHookGhost
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by RedHookGhost »

So I looked up reference for Daggerfall Khajiit and about the only thing I could find is that they're called "Ohmes-Raht" if the trivia on the Elderscrolls Wiki is to be believed. I found one piece of concept art that appears to be human looking, and that's it (they don't even have tails in that art). If someone else knows what they look like officially, feel free to let me know. For now, this is what I've got. More humanish than other Elderscrolls games, some cat features. Too much? Not enough?

I also feel like these came out better than all my other pieces so far, and now I'm grumpy because I want to go back and redo all the others. There's like 50 hours in a day right? I can totally do that. -_-;
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XJDHDR
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by XJDHDR »

RedHookGhost wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:27 am So I looked up reference for Daggerfall Khajiit and about the only thing I could find is that they're called "Ohmes-Raht" if the trivia on the Elderscrolls Wiki is to be believed. I found one piece of concept art that appears to be human looking, and that's it (they don't even have tails in that art). If someone else knows what they look like officially, feel free to let me know.
I usually go with the UESP for lore related info. It says that Daggerfall's Khajiit are indeed Ohmes-Raht and say the following about them: "In contrast to men and mer, the body of an Ohmes-raht is covered by light fur, and they do have a tail.[UOL 1]"
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit#Furstocks

I think that concept art was most probably for an Ohmes rather than Ohmes-Raht.

As extra info, Arena's Khajiit are Ohmes, Morrowind used Suthay-raht while Oblivion onwards had Cathay.

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King of Worms
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by King of Worms »

Hi RedHook, thanks a lot for another batch!

I was awaiting the moment when you come across the Khajiit. Its something everyone was baffled with so far. In the later games like Skyrim, they are almost cat like. In the 1st TES game they were almost 100% human-like. In DFU they are a mix of human a cat, and they do have a tail indeed.

I personally think your rendition is a nice mix of human and cat, with the cat like nose, mouth and bright eyes.
I think its really good!

Dont worry about redoing everything you did, the quality there is really high, compared to the big part of the heads in my mod. Just take a look at the other heads in the pack Ive sent you... :) Also, the heads are not that big in the game, so some nuances get less pronounced than when you observe it in the full screen.

Here are 3 other ideas of how Khajiit can look
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RedHookGhost
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by RedHookGhost »

@XJDHDR, thank you for the link. Google failed me, and I can't believe I missed that source. It's very obvious and very informative. (I had no idea there were that many cat people!) I'm pretty sure I was sent to different pages on that site but missed the one that mattered. I am a terrible researcher and turn in my badge. It does say they can easily be mistaken for mer or men, but since they're covered in fur and have tails, I'll take that with a grain of salt and assume my cat people are passable as other races (if you squint hard in direct blinding sunlight from a distance). XD

@King of Worms, I'm happy my versions are satisfactory. I kind of want to offer to to do all the Khajiit to make them consistent, but I know that when I'm finished with these portraits there were others than haven't been done at all (vampires I think?). Also, that might be disrespectful to the artists who've already contributed? And maybe players would prefer the variety?

I'm still working on the next couple of Khajiit, I got caught up with real life responsibilities today, so had a late start. I'll either get them up later tonight or tomorrow.

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XJDHDR
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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by XJDHDR »

RedHookGhost wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 9:30 pm @XJDHDR, thank you for the link. Google failed me, and I can't believe I missed that source. It's very obvious and very informative. (I had no idea there were that many cat people!) I'm pretty sure I was sent to different pages on that site but missed the one that mattered. I am a terrible researcher and turn in my badge. It does say they can easily be mistaken for mer or men, but since they're covered in fur and have tails, I'll take that with a grain of salt and assume my cat people are passable as other races (if you squint hard in direct blinding sunlight from a distance). XD
I would assume the author of that comment meant that it is at a distance, as you said. That said, I checked the references for the claim that they can be mistaken for men or mer. The first (the book "Mixed Unit Tactics") just says that Ohmes-raht are man-like without saying that they can be mistaken for them. The second (the "Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition" booklet) says that one unpopular opinion is that they so closely elves that they could be cousins, which also doesn't necessarily mean visually indistinguishable.

On a side note, are you planning on doing heads for the Argonians in future (no rush)?

King of Worms wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:37 am Its something everyone was baffled with so far. In the later games like Skyrim, they are almost cat like. In the 1st TES game they were almost 100% human-like. In DFU they are a mix of human a cat, and they do have a tail indeed.
The lore explanation is that Khajiit have a lot of different breeds. Which one an individual becomes is mainly the result of the two moons' phases when they are born.

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Re: KoW - D.R.E.A.M.

Post by RedHookGhost »

XJDHDR wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:53 am On a side note, are you planning on doing heads for the Argonians in future (no rush)?
Right now I'm just finishing the portraits for the DREAM mod. I think the Argonians were already done by someone else, but I'm not sure. If KOW wants me to do them, I'm not opposed. Apart from that, I might do them if you'd like, but they wouldn't actually be part of any mod. I'd just upload them as separate source art on the Nexus. I think they could possibly be dropped in the Daggerfall Texture folder and work if you name them properly, but I'm not positive on that. You'd have to check. I'll be absolutely honest in that, I like modding my games, but I have very VERY little practical knowledge on how mods are made. Wildly impressed by them! And completely mystified.

Here are cat people again! Angry man-bat and chill hippie looking dudes.
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