Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

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jimfcarroll
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by jimfcarroll » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:34 pm

Is it possible to change this mod so that, when traveling by ship, we get the default DFU behavior? The reason is, the time calculation used here:

https://github.com/TheNewBob/TediousTra ... p.cs#L1341

... appears to have simply the WORST (IMO) selections hard coded. Would it be possible to actually pull up the default travel dialog that asks about staying at Inns and reckless travel? If not, would you take a PR that sets the values passed to that calculator (I'm assuming those flags are related to your selections from that default dialog) from the MODs settings page?

EDIT: Looking into the code I'm a bit confused as to what's going on with the days calculation. When I disable the MOD I can get the time from Daggerfall to Wayrest using the Ship down to 11 days by using selecting Ship/Reckless/Inns. When I use the Tedious Travel MOD the calculation is 17 days.

This is odd. The Tedious Travel MOD does the calculation by hardcoding the settings Ship/Reckless/CampOut. When I select these with the MOD disabled I get 13 days. If the underlying system is using the same calculator, then the difference must be related to the additional parameters which include whether or not I have a Horse and Cart. The MOD hardcodes these to false while I have them in my inventory and I'm assuming the default travel system takes those into account.

EDIT2: Just and FYI (which you probably know), when I use Tedious Travel, it actually takes the 17 days.

EDIT3: I changed the MOD to use:

Code: Select all

travelTimeCalculator.CalculateTravelTime(
                destinationPosition,
                false, true, true, true, true);
That is, Reckless/Inns/Ship/HaveHorse/HaveCart and I got 12 days. This is probably the same as the 11 days I get without the MOD enabled but Ceil-inged (which the MOD does here: https://github.com/TheNewBob/TediousTra ... p.cs#L1352 ) rather than rounded.

Jim

jimfcarroll
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by jimfcarroll » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:38 pm

This addresses all of the issues I mentioned if you want to take it:

https://github.com/TheNewBob/TediousTravel/pull/24
  • Calculate the trip cost using the Daggerfall engine so it's consistent with the normal game.
  • Take into account whether or not the player has a horse and a cart for travel time by ship calculation (Yes, this makes a difference since part of your trip will be on land)
  • Add a setting that allows the user to specify that they want to use inns while traveling by ship (Yes, this makes a difference since part of your trip will be on land).

jimfcarroll
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by jimfcarroll » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:03 pm

0.4.2 seems to have introduced the potential for an infinite interrupt loop (this doesn't happen with 0.4.1 and it's not using my changes above in case you're wondering). The travel gets interrupted, there's no one around, resuming travel immediately interrupts. As a guess this is due to 1 of 3 possibilities:

1) I'm a Lycanthrope being hunted which initiates the interrupt but, for some reason, no hunter ever appears.
2) I'm leaving from Daggerfall at night and even though I (eventually) get far from the city, a ghost from Lusandus' army appears (maybe where I used to be?) and I'm interrupted where I'm currently at.
3) I'm at the point in the main quest where I'm being hunted by Woodborne's assassins. This encounter eventually happens if you don't fast travel or disable the Tedious Travel mod.

I think 2 is unlikely.

Attached is my save that I've been able to reproduce the problem 100% of the time, even when I disable all other mods and get re-positioned outside of the daggerfall gates. To reproduce, load the save, with the MOD enabled. If you're repositioned outside of Daggerfall, move to the right a few steps so as not to get hung up on the gate. Travel to Gallotale. It doesn't matter whether or not you use the horse. Bump up the time compression to about 55X. Avoid all encounters. Any interrupts for legitimate reasons (ghosts because we're near Daggerfall or because a hunter actually appears) kill the enemy. Use the spell "Not Tired" to refill Stamina when necessary.

Eventually an interrupt will happen with no enemy around allowing you to immediately resume the travel but the travel will then immediately interrupt again. It doesn't matter how far you travel manually from this location, you will immediately be interrupted again when you resume your travel.

EDIT: More info:
1) This is reproducible on a clean install of 0.10.10 (latest download), with only 0.4.2 of this MOD installed. It also fails on the master of the main DFU as of Saturday (10/26).
2) It may be possible to get all the way to Gallotale before this triggers since it happens at different places and I've been fairly close to that destination. Still, I've run it about 10-12 times now with a 100% rate of triggering the bug.
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jedidia
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by jedidia » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:29 pm

This is odd. The Tedious Travel MOD does the calculation by hardcoding the settings Ship/Reckless/CampOut. When I select these with the MOD disabled I get 13 days. If the underlying system is using the same calculator, then the difference must be related to the additional parameters which include whether or not I have a Horse and Cart.
Not necessarily. TT has a time penalty connected to the accessibility of a location (i.e. its type). It's all described on the first page. Now, I'm not saying that the travel times are perfect, I never tested them too much, but it is intentional that they are not equivalent to standard daggerfall times.
Yes, this makes a difference since part of your trip will be on land
I know that it makes a difference in default DF because it assumes that you'll be travelling by any means possible. TT on the other hand assumes that there is some form of navigable river to inland ports, i.e. the fact that it doesn't take into account whether or not you have a horse is intentional. Whether the travel times overall make much sense is an entirely different question, but there shouldn't be a difference depending on whether you have a horse or not.
0.4.2 seems to have introduced the potential for an infinite interrupt loop
That's concerning, though. Might have something to do with disease detection, which I couldn't really test because I can't add diseases through the console. I'll take a look when I get around to it.

jimfcarroll
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by jimfcarroll » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:54 pm

jedidia wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:29 pm
TT has a time penalty connected to the accessibility of a location (i.e. its type). It's all described on the first page. Now, I'm not saying that the travel times are perfect, I never tested them too much, but it is intentional that they are not equivalent to standard daggerfall times.
Well, my PR makes them equivalent. My only complaint with the MOD was that the ship travel times were too long. My PR changes that by matching the base DF logic for ship travel and taking into account your horse and cart (like the base DF does).
jedidia wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:29 pm
I know that it makes a difference in default DF because it assumes that you'll be travelling by any means possible. TT on the other hand assumes that there is some form of navigable river to inland ports, i.e. the fact that it doesn't take into account whether or not you have a horse is intentional. Whether the travel times overall make much sense is an entirely different question, but there shouldn't be a difference depending on whether you have a horse or not.
I guess that means you wont be taking the PR. Personally I think it should make a difference (if you have a horse). If it were real life, and it's going to take me 11 days to get from Daggerfall to Wayrest by ship if I use my horse to get to the ship, but it's going to take me 17 days if I take the intercoastals to the ship, I'm pretty sure I'd take my horse.

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4nt
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by 4nt » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:21 am

Thank you for making this mod. :D

This (paired with Warm Ashes) and the airship mod have really redefined traveling in Daggerfall.

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Ralzar
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by Ralzar » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:05 am

I just tested out this combined with warm ashes and I'm loving it. It really fleshes out the game.

Only problem I had with it was that with a cart I failed several quests due to simply taking too long to travel back and forth. But that's really a problem with cart speed and quest time limits.


What I would LOVE to see combined with this mod would be the Roads Of Daggerfall that someone was working on a while back. Then you could start choosing to either travel by road or off-road :D

jedidia
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by jedidia » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:45 am

I guess that means you wont be taking the PR.
First of, thanks for contributing. I *do* appreciate it, but usually it's a good idea to check in with the author about his vision for the mod before submitting PRs.

As for integrating your changes, if you make it an option that can be configured in the mods settings (something like "native daggerfall time calculation for ship travel"), I will gladly merge it in. I'm all for having options.
Only problem I had with it was that with a cart I failed several quests due to simply taking too long to travel back and forth. But that's really a problem with cart speed and quest time limits.
Stange, I never really had trouble with the time limits, unless I picked up too many other quests along the road. TT does require you to focus a bit. Also, a cart can actually be significantly faster in in-game time than a horse, because it turns out travelling by cart doesn't consume stamina, so you can easily put in a 12-hour travel day from sunrise to sundown even with lvl 1 characters.
I've also seen many people using recall a lot more than usual when running this mod...

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Ralzar
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by Ralzar » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:56 am

jedidia wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:45 am
Only problem I had with it was that with a cart I failed several quests due to simply taking too long to travel back and forth. But that's really a problem with cart speed and quest time limits.
Stange, I never really had trouble with the time limits, unless I picked up too many other quests along the road. TT does require you to focus a bit. Also, a cart can actually be significantly faster in in-game time than a horse, because it turns out travelling by cart doesn't consume stamina, so you can easily put in a 12-hour travel day from sunrise to sundown even with lvl 1 characters.
I've also seen many people using recall a lot more than usual when running this mod...
It's problably because I combined it with Warm Ashes. So travel time took longer, I ran into more random encounters. The cart speed made it harder to flee, which mean more damage and stamina drain. Which meant more detour to inn to sleep etc.
I wasn't able to really start doing quests until I sold the cart and got a horse instead.

It should be said though, I playd a character that couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag. So cart speed wasn't her only problem :P

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Ralzar
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Re: Tedious Travel 0.4.2 (2019-10-16)

Post by Ralzar » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:37 am

Say, have you given any thought to implemeting this mod for the city maps?

When using this mod, if I am on the wrong side of a large city, I go to the travel map, select a destination in the right direction and use tedious travel to speed-cross the city. It would be super handy if you could instead open the town map and click on a point there to set a travel destination.

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