Tedious Travel 0.2.2

A curated forum for approved mods. Users are unable to create new topics in this forum but can reply to existing topics. Please message a moderator to have your mod moved into this forum area.
jedidia
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by jedidia » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:40 pm

Could this mod add a survival element based on weather conditions you encounter?
Is on the drawing board, but will be a separate mod if I ever start implementing it.
It wouldn't necessarily have to be me that implements it either. Tedious Travel would work just fine with any mod adding a survival aspect.
That would make it more necessary to stop at taverns along the way or even wear appropriate clothing (e.g. cloak)
That's exactly the kind of ideas I had, yes.
There's actually one big piece of help that anybody could give me without needing any programming skills whatsoever: Get me something akin to a heatmap of the entire game area with average temperatures for individual regions and seasons. Getting that data together to construct a sensible temperature model would really be the most work-intensive part of such a mod. If anybody provides me with that, I could have a basic prototype pretty fast.
I support the idea of having an option to use classic DF fast travel, for when I don't have the real world time to TT.
Meh, I'm really not so fond of that... It would integrate badly, kind of destroy the entire purpose of the mod, and add maintenance overhead to the code. Now I can perfectly see how you might want to use it in some sessions and in others not because you're too short on time, but for that scenario you can still just disable the mod at startup.
I would also like to have a 3x travel speed, as 5x for shortish journeys is too big a step up for me. Would that be feasible, please?
Huh, yes, that's no problem at all. Will be in the next patch.

User avatar
Prester Lewin
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by Prester Lewin » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:06 pm

Thanks for the reply. Does this help with the heatmap?

I've no programming insight, but UESP seems to be saying these files in arena2 directory hold classic game data about climate and can be translated into a map. It looks like it would produce a very broad brush climate map, but I suppose that is the way classic DF is:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:WOODS.WLD_format
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:CLIMATE.PAK

jedidia
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by jedidia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:04 am

Thanks for the reply. Does this help with the heatmap?
Something as simple as an excell sheet would already help. Don't take the term "map" too literally. Temperatures are not in the game files as far as I know, so there's no way to get them from the game directly. Though if I'm wrong here and temperature is data provided by the game, then the whole thing would become very easy.
But I'm working on the assumption that somebody will have to do some research through elder scrolls lore and wikis and interpolate from that to make up stuff that feels sensible. As I mentioned, it's not an insignifficant amount of work, but it doesn't involve any programming.

User avatar
Prester Lewin
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by Prester Lewin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:13 am

Sorry, as I said, I’m not a programmer, so I’m merely trying to save a lot of work, but reading UESP about these classic game files, it does maintain that the game derives climate, i.e. weather, from them.

The discussion is more about map-building, but it states that, by reading those 2 files, you can obtain for any given position on the map of the Bay:

- ground texture range
- sky texture range
- vegetation texture
-altitude
- whether it’s deemed to be desert, mountain, temperate or jungle (although these values are apparently not used by classic DF to determine actual weather, so might contain errors that don’t affect the classic game).

So, for example, if you have a given value of 223 in a certain position in Climate.pak, you get a ground texture range of 402-404, flat texture 502 and sky file range 29-31. You can also read altitude and a broad definition of terrain type from Woods.wld. (Again, there might be anomalies in the data.)

When decoded, doesn’t that suggest that a climate map can be deduced procedurally? The game then seems to me to apply what are obviously in Tamriel northern hemisphere seasonal variations derived from the Earth climate. Use of altitude to refine seasonal variations would also evidently be possible. UESP doesn't say whether classic DF does that, but I like the idea of it being coldest when you're high up in the mountains in winter.

User avatar
Hazelnut
Posts: 939
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by Hazelnut » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:27 am

You should take a look at MapsFile.ClimateFile() - this is where DFU provides access the climate data. It would be sensible to use IKs DFTFU code rather than rolling your own.

User avatar
Prester Lewin
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by Prester Lewin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:02 pm

Thanks, HN

User avatar
Midknightprince
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:51 am
Location: San Antonio TX
Contact:

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by Midknightprince » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:50 pm

Not working with the finding the location through the quest Journal.
when you click on a quest, the world map opens up but the location is not marked, it just shows your current location, then you have to manually look for the quest location old school style to get this mod to kick in.

To reproduce just get a quest with that new feature in, and click on the quest in the journal.
Check out my YouTube Channel!

jedidia
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by jedidia » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:36 pm

Not working with the finding the location through the quest Journal.
Unsurprising... I wasn't even aware you could do that! :lol:
I'll have to look how I can intercept that properly.
It would be sensible to use IKs DFTFU code rather than rolling your own.
For reading the climate file, for sure. But is there any temperature data in there? If yes, that would be great. I assumed Daggerfall would be using a simple Markov chain with some regional modifiers for weather (i.e. to determine whether it's currently snowing, raining or whatnot).
When decoded, doesn’t that suggest that a climate map can be deduced procedurally?
Something could be deduced procedurally, but without some absolute values to hang the start of the process on it's going to be a very rough model with a lot of artifacts. All the stuff you mentioned is very useful once you have values from which to interpolate, but they don't give you those values...

User avatar
Hazelnut
Posts: 939
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by Hazelnut » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:54 am

jedidia wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:36 pm
Not working with the finding the location through the quest Journal.
Unsurprising... I wasn't even aware you could do that! :lol:
I'll have to look how I can intercept that properly.
I thought I had mentioned this somewhere, but maybe not. This is the downside of not extending the class, but the changes should be simple to port over. The relevant commits are 60ade800b1af1c512942e2ce1cb571e553655ba3 & abdea35c94b557b33fab636c559887259fe4d416. If you add the same to your travel map version, as long as you intercept the message to pop up the window it should work just fine.

jedidia
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Tedious Travel 0.2.0

Post by jedidia » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:01 pm

I thought I had mentioned this somewhere, but maybe not.
You did, but I didn't quite know what you meant and didn't have the time to check up on it. Thanks for the pointers.

Post Reply