[MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

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ByteMixer
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by ByteMixer » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:22 am

I'm not a lawyer. But I want to clarify one point. And this page also sums things up rather nicely: https://www.pdinfo.com/copyright-law/pu ... rdings.php

There's no way the Hanna-Barbera library is public domain.

Think of the Hanna-Barbera CDs as a set of sample CDs you'd buy today for various electronic music projects, where you can use the samples and sounds in any project you want, mangle them however you want, and release the work even commercially. Same concept.

Now, those original old sounds from the original shows in their original formats may not be under copyright law, but in some states, they are still protected by common law and anti-piracy until 2067, and that goes for any sound recording released before 1972. But that is state law, not federal law. However, sound recordings made and released after 1972 will enter public domain in 2043, or something like that. Those laws pretty much hold for all recorded sounds. Unfortunately the first recorded LPs of the show sound effects came out in the 80's And then Sound Ideas released the digital formats in the 1990's. So the copyright laws are still in effect for those formats.

On that note, I think you can find the old LPs for cheaper on Amazon sometimes. But you'd need a turntable that outputs to digital format either by recording the output into an interface and DAW or USB.

So, in a nutshell, those old Hanna-Barbera sounds in the LP and CD formats will not be public domain until at least 2043. The original sound recordings won't be truly public-domain until 2067......and that goes for ANY sound recording released in the USA, really.

However if you buy the license, you can use them however you want for private and commercial projects. They're just royalty free, meaning you don't have to pay additional mechanical license fees or songwriting/publisher royalties to HFA/Soundexchange or BMI/ASCAP and the like when you publish whatever work you use them in. Just think of it as an extensive sample library CD that has a buttload of sounds..........totally not worth the price IMO, mind you. :D

The other points mentioned by the attorney seem valid.


I'm just getting involved to clarify, since I've been doing my own reading on things lately because I just joined BMI as a songwriter, and got my works registered because the band I'm in is releasing a 4-song EP soon, and two of my works will be recorded. Not that I ever expect to see a dime from songwriter/publisher royalties, but hey, a film or TV series could pick up one of my works to use. Or something could see radio play somewhere some day. :lol: But that's neither here nor there.
"Whatever you do, make good art." - Neil Gaiman

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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by Midknightprince » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:47 pm

jedidia wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:37 am
No idea where they originated, but if you ever watch the first episode of The Dragon Prince on Netflix, them doors are going to give you a serious case of association whiplash... :lol:
Dude I heard that too LOL, I have been hearing that door since I played Daggerfall I shit you not, it's in a lot of stuff....
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by Midknightprince » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:55 pm

Jay_H wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:42 pm
This is a bit more complicated than most matters we deal with. The graphics and text and so on were created directly by Bethesda, so they had the right to release them for free. But they bought the sounds from other people. The fact that the sounds were included in Daggerfall doesn't automatically give us a legal right to ownership or manipulation of the sounds.

Yeah this is the big thing I'm thinking about, I don't want to get me or anybody in trouble that's why I mixed the stuff up.
The thing about editing the music into environmental sounds, you have to go by the song if you want it to work right
So if it's a spooky song just use your imagination, it can't be too much because the spooky song plays randomly, outside in Ruins, stuff like that so if you edit it you kind of have to go in the game and see how it acts like...
It's kind of time consuming, you got to wait for these things to play that you just edited, changing the weather doesn't do it it just has to turn on.

And the thing about manually starting it is where are you at ?
Does this fit in in the city if that's where I'm at ?
Imagination helps, but experiencing it is the big thing, I've changed some cool stuff playing it and seen what it felt like..

I think it's fun.
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by Cliffworms » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:34 pm

Regarding sources for sound effects replacements that are different than Daggerfall's, the BBC has a SFX library that, according to the license, seems like they can be used for non-commercial projects,eas credited.

Library : http://bbcsfx.acropolis.org.uk/
License
: https://github.com/bbcarchdev/Remarc/bl ... _final.pdf

Several sounds are high quality, othrs have been recorded in the 70's so that's something different. It could be a good source along with Freesound.org .
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by jayhova » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:30 pm

Jay_H wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:49 pm
jayhova wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:05 pm
The sound clips are currently listed as public domain by a reliable source (Internet archive) and this claim has not been challenged and failing to do so constitutes abandonment.
[/list]
I find your reasoning to be very well-founded except in this one point. Internet Archive, in my opinion, should not be trusted as an authoritative source for copyright; I've found many creative works under active copyright that people decided to upload just for the lulz.

My subconscious, and unrelated to DFU, concern was that people could transfer the sound files from DFU to some other project. Somehow I contaminated my other thoughts on that matter with that worry, for no reason.

The attorney was likely referring to the doctrine of first sale, which is a good focal point to use for consideration. I don't find any other flaws in the reasoning.
The Internet archive is not a pirate site (in the business of posting copyrighted material for redistribution) and is in fact a permanent website in as much as these things can said to be permanent. The material is not concealed and Sound Ideas is listed right there. A simple web search would reveal the existence of this material and obviously did to someone. These facts certainly remove any criminal liability from using the material. It is the duty of the copyright holder to issue cease and desist notices if they feel their copyright is being infringed. It's clear they have not done so.

This is not my opinion but the opinion of a practicing attorney. My opinion is that if you really wanted to cover all your bases you could print a copy of the webpage and have it notarized as proof your were acting in good faith. He (my attorney) would likely concur.
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by jayhova » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:00 pm

ByteMixer wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:22 am
I'm not a lawyer. But I want to clarify one point. And this page also sums things up rather nicely: https://www.pdinfo.com/copyright-law/pu ... rdings.php

There's no way the Hanna-Barbera library is public domain.

Think of the Hanna-Barbera CDs as a set of sample CDs you'd buy today for various electronic music projects, where you can use the samples and sounds in any project you want, mangle them however you want, and release the work even commercially. Same concept.

Now, those original old sounds from the original shows in their original formats may not be under copyright law, but in some states, they are still protected by common law and anti-piracy until 2067, and that goes for any sound recording released before 1972. But that is state law, not federal law. However, sound recordings made and released after 1972 will enter public domain in 2043, or something like that. Those laws pretty much hold for all recorded sounds. Unfortunately the first recorded LPs of the show sound effects came out in the 80's And then Sound Ideas released the digital formats in the 1990's. So the copyright laws are still in effect for those formats.

On that note, I think you can find the old LPs for cheaper on Amazon sometimes. But you'd need a turntable that outputs to digital format either by recording the output into an interface and DAW or USB.

So, in a nutshell, those old Hanna-Barbera sounds in the LP and CD formats will not be public domain until at least 2043. The original sound recordings won't be truly public-domain until 2067......and that goes for ANY sound recording released in the USA, really.

However if you buy the license, you can use them however you want for private and commercial projects. They're just royalty free, meaning you don't have to pay additional mechanical license fees or songwriting/publisher royalties to HFA/Soundexchange or BMI/ASCAP and the like when you publish whatever work you use them in. Just think of it as an extensive sample library CD that has a buttload of sounds..........totally not worth the price IMO, mind you. :D

The other points mentioned by the attorney seem valid.


I'm just getting involved to clarify, since I've been doing my own reading on things lately because I just joined BMI as a songwriter, and got my works registered because the band I'm in is releasing a 4-song EP soon, and two of my works will be recorded. Not that I ever expect to see a dime from songwriter/publisher royalties, but hey, a film or TV series could pick up one of my works to use. Or something could see radio play somewhere some day. :lol: But that's neither here nor there.
Ahh.. the infamous Sonny Bono act. To say "There's no way the Hanna-Barbera library is public domain." is not in fact true. The law in question consolidated the various, often confusing, state laws into a single law that is in my mind far too draconian. However, there are in fact any number of reasons that recordings might fall into the public domain. The act you speak of does not remedy abandonment. It does however allow the owners of the original material to assert their rights to the reinstated copyright. It should be pointed out that as my attorney indicated allowing material to be represented as public domain and making no effort to remedy this constitutes abandonment. It is possible that the sounds in question were purposely made public domain for ease of use and that Sound Ideas relied on the distribution method (CDs which at the time were very hard to copy) as a means of controlling distribution.
Remember always 'What would Julian Do?'.
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:03 pm

I recognized 2 out of the 3 thunder sounds from The General 6000

StormLightningThunder comes from Sound Ideas, THUNDER - THUNDER CLAP AND RUMBLE, WEATHER 05

StormThunderRoll comes from Sound Ideas, THUNDER - THUNDER ROLL AND RUMBLE, WEATHER 01

The third one (the thunder clap used for the logo) is harder to recognize, it may have been either distorted on purpose, or by the 11kHz 8bit resampling...
I suspect StormLightningShort is a modified Sound Ideas, THUNDER - THUNDER CLAP AND RUMBLE, WEATHER 01, sped up 2x, compressed, then probably distorded. It has strange frequency artefacts, but I don't know what effect could cause those... some kind of delay/flanger effect?
thunderclap.jpg
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:59 am

I almost fell for a second hand version of The General 6000 on eBay...
Problem is, its license is non-transferable, so that would not have been sufficient for fixing sounds legally :(
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by Midknightprince » Sat May 04, 2019 8:43 pm

Any new updates on this one ?
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Re: [MOD] Cleaned SoundClips

Post by pango » Sat May 04, 2019 11:44 pm

Nothing from me, at least.
Azteca said he would be working on more sounds this summer, it will probably require code changes to benefit from more sounds, will see...
When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
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